Domestic Hate-Why?

Smoke

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Feb 11, 2009
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At work my boss hates Grand Ams . Doesnt like em.

OK, whatev,GM sold almost a million of the things.But still, every time I mention Pontiac people just cant wait to talk about 'shitty' GM cars are, and how their 3-series/Civic/Altima/Camry is 'soo much better'

My stock response is :gtfo2:

Why all this hate?GM made some mistakes, but so does Toyota and Honda, and you dont see people condemning the whole company over a serious defect.I dont get that complex at all.

What are your thoughts?
 

Mook

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well look who is in the news...GM, Chrysler and Ford....they always are. they had a horrible reputation early on for shitty build quality, etc....its totally not the case now, but people refuse to believe otherwise. it doesnt help matters when the big 3 are asking for billions or taxpayer money to stay afloat
 

Dasfinc

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IMO:

Grand am was a 'ok' car, both visually, and in the 'sporty' department, but the 3400 motor is a turd, and has had a pile of recalls and issues :(.

I've seen the 99's with shattered cams, I've personally done a headgasket job as well, its not an enjoyable experience, let alone the intake manifold gaskets which are designed to fail prior to 65,000 miles. The later years they put the Ecotec 4 cylinder in them which I think is a solid little motor, and is a good econmical combination, but far from sporty.

so the long and short of it: IMO you can buy better cars for the same money.
 

Dasfinc

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well look who is in the news...GM, Chrysler and Ford....they always are. they had a horrible reputation early on for shitty build quality, etc....its totally not the case now, but people refuse to believe otherwise. it doesnt help matters when the big 3 are asking for billions or taxpayer money to stay afloat

GM and Chrysler are asking for money, Ford's fine still :ford:
 

stewartfn18

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IMO:

Grand am was a 'ok' car, both visually, and in the 'sporty' department, but the 3400 motor is a turd, and has had a pile of recalls and issues :(.

I've seen the 99's with shattered cams, I've personally done a headgasket job as well, its not an enjoyable experience, let alone the intake manifold gaskets which are designed to fail prior to 65,000 miles. The later years they put the Ecotec 4 cylinder in them which I think is a solid little motor, and is a good econmical combination, but far from sporty.

so the long and short of it: IMO you can buy better cars for the same money.

you cant say that all 3400's are bad because you saw a few 99's that were. GM made some drastic improvements in 2003 with the 3400 including the dreadful LIM gaskets. I have not replaced the head gaskets on mine, which are also supposedly crap. and i hace no leaks whatsoever, except for the rear main seal. GM also made drastic improvements with the trans over the course of the fifth gen GA's life. Im not saying that the Grand am is the car to end all cars, but it is a reliable car and the 3400 can be modded to make a modest amount of power for what it is. My .02

End Rant
 

Smoke

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IMO:

Grand am was a 'ok' car, both visually, and in the 'sporty' department, but the 3400 motor is a turd, and has had a pile of recalls and issues :(.

I've seen the 99's with shattered cams, I've personally done a headgasket job as well, its not an enjoyable experience, let alone the intake manifold gaskets which are designed to fail prior to 65,000 miles. The later years they put the Ecotec 4 cylinder in them which I think is a solid little motor, and is a good econmical combination, but far from sporty.

so the long and short of it: IMO you can buy better cars for the same money.

The 3400's only weakness was the LIM gasket, which is a failure common to the LA1s AND some 3800 V6's as well. Its a defect, but it wont kill the motor unless the *owner* ignores obvious symptoms of trouble , such as low coolant lights coming on, dissapearing coolant, milkshake oil, etc.

The 99's were weak because of first-year issues,but that's common to a lot of cars.The headgasket procedure on a 2.4 is a PITA,but once its done, its done-no repeat.

BTW-theres a built Grand Am running 11s with my engine type.I say that to clear up any stereotypes about these cars.

Back to topic,Toyota made mistakes with the oil system in their V6's-BMW built faulty bearings into their first-edition E46 M3s,but yet GM is castrated for making 'shitty' cars.While the bailout doesnt help, GM had this stigma before the economy went.
 

Dasfinc

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The 3400's only weakness was the LIM gasket, which is a failure common to the LA1s AND some 3800 V6's as well. Its a defect, but it wont kill the motor unless the *owner* ignores obvious symptoms of trouble , such as low coolant lights coming on, dissapearing coolant, milkshake oil, etc.

Most people don't pull over and turn off their car if the CEL comes on, and most people don't check their oil either.

The 99's were weak because of first-year issues,but that's common to a lot of cars.The headgasket procedure on a 2.4 is a PITA,but once its done, its done-no repeat.

the 2.8/3.1/3.4 family has been around since the late 80's, there is NO reason why the cams should be exploding aside from GM's cost-cutting attempts gone wrong.

BTW-theres a built Grand Am running 11s with my engine type.I say that to clear up any stereotypes about these cars.

And there are civics with 1.5 liter SOHC's running 10's? With enough money you can make anything fast, how does saying "There is a grand am with a 3.4 V-6 running 11's" clear up any stereotypes? the other 99.999% of them are still slow.


Back to topic,Toyota made mistakes with the oil system in their V6's-BMW built faulty bearings into their first-edition E46 M3s,but yet GM is castrated for making 'shitty' cars.While the bailout doesnt help, GM had this stigma before the economy went.

Toyota when they make a mistake, they send out the recall, they do not dick around. Many domestic automakers are known for not really 'letting people know' about the recalls, and often times prefer to fight in court regarding things that should have been recalled (for example, the V-8 SHO taurii)

Please keep in mind, I cannot think of a single BMW or Toyota I wouldn't drive/own, I have a LAUNDRY list of GM's I'd never by/drive/own even if given to me.

And for reference: My bone stock 93 automatic Taurus SHO walked all over an 03 GA GT, a car that was 10 years older, that was purchased for less than 1/10th the cost of the GA GT

I mean seriously, you have "Day Time Running Light Delete" listed as a mod infront of intake and exhaust, which are the only things you have DONE to the car, I'm sure you've only made it slower by doing those things unless you added a REAL intake system, and not some Ebay chrome shit.
 
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The Broken Regal

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to answer the original question, there is still domestic hate because people are simply ignorant and the magazines articles you see dont help them out one bit

seriously, just go read some of the comparison test and even if an import comes in the 8th place and a domestic 2nd, they'll still rip the 2nd place domestic to shreds
 

radioguy6

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I would purchase an american car if they offered something more innovative and better looking. I dont want to drive a car that is rebadged 6 times for other models. I also dont think FWD and V8 should ever go together in a sentence, or slapping SS on every car is innovative. I like imports better plan and simple. My family has owned american cars that barely made it to 100K without a new engine or a couple transmissions and it wasnt because we neglected the cars maintainence schedules. Yeah imports have their problems too, but none of the Nissans we have owned have seen the severe problems our Ford and GMs had, knock on wood. My uncle, an absolute Japanese car hater up until last year purchased a Honda Civic, it was like the end of the world to me.

Another thing is I have been completely against the automotive bailouts since day one. Its not my fault or the governments responsibility for their poor business practices. The union workers dont deserve 70K a year to assist robots in screwing in bolts.

If I was to buy a GM, I would purchase the G8 or a caddy CTS-V, maybe one of their trucks. They seem to be a step above IMO.
 

Smoke

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Most people don't pull over and turn off their car if the CEL comes on, and most people don't check their oil either.
.

I was referring to the LOW COOLANT light. Let me let ya in on a little secret-its typically a good idea to immediately shut down when it comes on.

the 2.8/3.1/3.4 family has been around since the late 80's, there is NO reason why the cams should be exploding aside from GM's cost-cutting attempts gone wrong.
.

OKAY......do you have a memo?Proof that GM really intended to cut corners?Thats what I thought....
And there are civics with 1.5 liter SOHC's running 10's? With enough money you can make anything fast, how does saying "There is a grand am with a 3.4 V-6 running 11's" clear up any stereotypes? the other 99.999% of them are still slow..

My point is that a Grand Am can be modded effectively.Im still waiting for yours.

Toyota when they make a mistake, they send out the recall, they do not dick around. Many domestic automakers are known for not really 'letting people know' about the recalls, and often times prefer to fight in court regarding things that should have been recalled (for example, the V-8 SHO taurii)

Please keep in mind, I cannot think of a single BMW or Toyota I wouldn't drive/own, I have a LAUNDRY list of GM's I'd never by/drive/own even if given to me..

Indeed, and its a problem that the Broke 3 need to adress. Forcing your customers into court over OEM mistakes is bad for business


And for reference: My bone stock 93 automatic Taurus SHO walked all over an 03 GA GT, a car that was 10 years older, that was purchased for less than 1/10th the cost of the GA GT
.
And ive beaten an '09 Civic Ex.That cost 4X my car.

I mean seriously, you have "Day Time Running Light Delete" listed as a mod infront of intake and exhaust, which are the only things you have DONE to the car, I'm sure you've only made it slower by doing those things unless you added a REAL intake system, and not some Ebay chrome shit.

Somebody need a hug?Looks like youve got some serious insecurities about driving a Ford Taurus if youre picking fights like that.Im happy with my car, and what I plan to do with it . Are you?

:gtfo2:


For the record-the only thing that came from Ebay on my car is the HID kit.:rofl:
 

Dasfinc

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just to clear this up, its a 2.4 twin cam, not a 3400

the QUAD? That produced more HP than the V-6 does back in like 1990? That also was notorious for running rough and essentially shaking itself to pieces? Thats a real quality piece....

You put enough boost or spray into a big displacement iron-block 4 cylinder and of course it will be fast, You are still not clearing up any 'stereotypes', unless HEAVILY modded, they are all dogs.
 

Dasfinc

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I was referring to the LOW COOLANT light. Let me let ya in on a little secret-its typically a good idea to immediately shut down when it comes on.

I agree, but again, people are stupid. And for reference, the LIM failure issue was a class-action lawsuit, not a recall until after they lost in court.

OKAY......do you have a memo?Proof that GM really intended to cut corners?Thats what I thought....
In 1999 They are Hollow....

My point is that a Grand Am can be modded effectively.Im still waiting for yours.
Bang for the buck, No, No they can't.

And ive beaten an '09 Civic Ex.That cost 4X my car.
Those are also Dog slow...


Somebody need a hug?Looks like youve got some serious insecurities about driving a Ford Taurus if youre picking fights like that.Im happy with my car, and what I plan to do with it.

I drive a bone stock civic :rofl:

Dasfinc: What's up your ass today? This guy just asked a question so you rip on his mods? I really wouldn't expect that from a guy who ran 15's in a motor swapped civic.

I hate GA's that think they are fast... Jareds WAS HEAVILY modified, and ran 'respectable' times, This guys is not. Its 'stereotypical' domestic rice to think your GA with Tint and loud mufflers is fast IMO.
 
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