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Old 01-11-2018, 12:18 PM   #26
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[quote=Mike K;3693112]I haven't changed it in 10 years. PM me with whatever number you're texting and I'll give you the correct digits. Me and Emerson exchange newds all the time. Texts are great.



Well they all have a low center of gravity. The improvement on the 3 seems to be a combination of 1000lbs less weight on a car with a shorter wheelbase, sitting on firmer springs with lightning quick steering turn-in.



I don't think Tesla is chasing the road course crowd. On the street I can abuse my S through all the twisties and I won't have a problem but if you're taking it to a road course you're going to have a bad time. I just don't think we're there yet and I don't think we'll be there soon because the type of person that tracks their car generally isn't looking at an electric sedan to begin with. I'm a unicorn in that respect.

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at 54k i still hardly consider it an everyman car, although it's cheaper than a new s of course. electric car of the people?

$35,000 is the starting price. $49,000 is the first available (cheapest you can get for the next few months) and then $5,000 is tacked on to my price for Autopilot. At $35,000 I'd say it's the car of the people. Is it going to be a kid's first new car purchase? Probably no but is it exponentially more attainable than the S and if you're lucky enough to buy one before the tax credit expires. it will only cost you $27,500.



I think you're taking me a little too literally. We're moving downmarket is the generally point I'm making and we moved downmarket in a big way.



Nah, I never sent the first one. I posted it on Opposite Lock. Back in the day you used to be able to post on all the various sub-blogs and then Jalopnik editors would grab their favorite stories and share them to the main site. I wish they still had that. Now I just do it mostly because I like going back and reading what I said about old cars.



Thanks. I didn't think it would be a pile but I was pleasantly surprised.



Not yet as far as I know.



They were but that appears to be improving.



No clue. :-(





Insurance should be (and likely will be) less as we're talking fully autonomous cars here which will be safer than human drivers. Renters will be on the Tesla network and also on camera (inward facing camera built into the rearview mirror) so insurance companies aren't going to charge a premium because you have strangers in your are. Statistically the expensive accidents are with other cars, not vandalism and in theory your autonomous car would never be in an at-fault accident which will lower insurance. There's even talk about Tesla self insuring and I believe Volvo even recently said that by a certain year they will take full responsibility for any accident caused by their autonomous car.



I have some videos about 20 minutes long but no time to really chop them together. Maybe I'll just toss up the raw footage. Mike K uncut.
Good post.

Only thing I wanted to comment on was the tax rebate.

I'm sure you didn't mean to apply it as such, but, the $7,500 is NOT guaranteed for everyone. If someone buys the Model 3, but, only paid $6,000 in federal taxes, they will only get a portion. If you pay over $7,500 in taxes, you can get the full amount of the rebate.

This will apply to a good amount of people, but, certainly not everyone. So, including that as an arguing point to reduce the price cannot be applied to the masses. A lot of people finance cars and buy 30K cars all the time, but, don't make that much money.

For $35,000 plus about $4,000 in taxes/fees put this car around 40K, which is not bad. If you want to get more options, it is easily a mid 50K car.
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Old 01-11-2018, 12:36 PM   #27
 
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Default The Model 3 is the Half Price Model S Tesla REALLY doesn't want you to Buy Right Now

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Originally Posted by Mike K View Post
I haven't changed it in 10 years. PM me with whatever number you're texting and I'll give you the correct digits. Me and Emerson exchange newds all the time. Texts are great.







Well they all have a low center of gravity. The improvement on the 3 seems to be a combination of 1000lbs less weight on a car with a shorter wheelbase, sitting on firmer springs with lightning quick steering turn-in.







I don't think Tesla is chasing the road course crowd. On the street I can abuse my S through all the twisties and I won't have a problem but if you're taking it to a road course you're going to have a bad time. I just don't think we're there yet and I don't think we'll be there soon because the type of person that tracks their car generally isn't looking at an electric sedan to begin with. I'm a unicorn in that respect.







Good post.



Only thing I wanted to comment on was the tax rebate.



I'm sure you didn't mean to apply it as such, but, the $7,500 is NOT guaranteed for everyone. If someone buys the Model 3, but, only paid $6,000 in federal taxes, they will only get a portion. If you pay over $7,500 in taxes, you can get the full amount of the rebate.



This will apply to a good amount of people, but, certainly not everyone. So, including that as an arguing point to reduce the price cannot be applied to the masses. A lot of people finance cars and buy 30K cars all the time, but, don't make that much money.



For $35,000 plus about $4,000 in taxes/fees put this car around 40K, which is not bad. If you want to get more options, it is easily a mid 50K car.


If all preorders stand. Anyone who orders now will not get any tax benefit FYI.

I believe thatís only up to the first 200,000 or 250,000 deliveries.

Even the Model S will soon be done with the tax rebate. Vin numbers are approaching or have passed the 200,000 mark.


Edit: just looked and after 200,000 deliveries it starts to phase out. So if you do not have a preorder the car will be full price
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Old 01-11-2018, 12:39 PM   #28
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How does @Mike K get one before @Bru even has a chance to test it
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Old 01-11-2018, 12:44 PM   #29
 
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Too add. You should never purchase a car and factor in the tax credit. If you canít afford the car at $35k you canít afford the car period. Regardless of some $7500 dollar deduction.
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Old 01-11-2018, 12:51 PM   #30
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I don't know that's true. $8k can make a difference in affordability. $125/month could make or break a car purchase.
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Old 01-11-2018, 01:06 PM   #31
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How does @Mike K get one before @Bru even has a chance to test it
Tesla isn't a traditional auto company. No shit, right? And they don't have traditional relationships with the media. There's no Model 3 press launch or a very large media fleet, which is almost entirely in LA. And that's fine. It sounds like they're trying to change that, however. I just drove an X in Chicago with their new comms person, and it was the first Tesla I've driven since 2012 or 2013.
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Old 01-11-2018, 01:15 PM   #32
 
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Default The Model 3 is the Half Price Model S Tesla REALLY doesn't want you to Buy Right Now

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I don't know that's true. $8k can make a difference in affordability. $125/month could make or break a car purchase.


Your payment doesnít change when that tax return comes in. That does not mean you get a check at the end of the year for $7500 either. Itís a ďtax creditĒ

Also how many people do you think will put that entire return towards the car? Slim to none. Only the smart individuals who realize thatís not ďfree moneyĒ

If your payment is $500 a month now for the model 3 .... itís still $500 a month come tax time. Just saying
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Old 01-11-2018, 01:16 PM   #33
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Old 01-11-2018, 01:20 PM   #34
 
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Default The Model 3 is the Half Price Model S Tesla REALLY doesn't want you to Buy Right Now

I see what you are saying but I would always play it safe and never stretch a budget based on a potential tax return. To me thatís foolish..... but to some it makes sense I guess.

For me when I go to order my Model S. The tax return is simply a bonus and has no bearing on the car order itself
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Old 01-11-2018, 01:25 PM   #35
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I see where you're coming from, it's not ideal for everyone on a budget. But it isn't like you don't get the money, it's just a timing issue. If you can't afford to absorb the higher payments until refund time, yeah, probably not a good idea.
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Old 01-11-2018, 01:28 PM   #36
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Insurance should be (and likely will be) less as we're talking fully autonomous cars here which will be safer than human drivers. Renters will be on the Tesla network and also on camera (inward facing camera built into the rearview mirror) so insurance companies aren't going to charge a premium because you have strangers in your are. Statistically the expensive accidents are with other cars, not vandalism and in theory your autonomous car would never be in an at-fault accident which will lower insurance. There's even talk about Tesla self insuring and I believe Volvo even recently said that by a certain year they will take full responsibility for any accident caused by their autonomous car.
That's crazy

I'm really curious where the car market is headed in the next 10 years. All I know is that the change is going to be rapid. When the opportunity arises i'll totally rock a c7z or GTR with no DD and just let a model 3 take me to work in the winter lol.

Car ownership will probably decline significantly
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Old 01-11-2018, 01:36 PM   #37
 
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That's crazy

I'm really curious where the car market is headed in the next 10 years. All I know is that the change is going to be rapid. When the opportunity arises i'll totally rock a c7z or GTR with no DD and just let a model 3 take me to work in the winter lol.

Car ownership will probably decline significantly
Shits going to be like the iRobot movie.

Everything on autopilot, people just doing work on their way into the office, traffic flowing better because there's not morons making stupid choices all over, no more DUIs, etc.
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Old 01-11-2018, 01:42 PM   #38
 
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For me Autopilot will be very hard to get used too, and I will not be unlocking it on my car. I used it on both test vehicles and I found myself instantly freaking near every corner, car, turn etc. when you first engaged it, itís freaky as hell.
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Old 01-11-2018, 01:44 PM   #39
 
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Here's a question, will someone like @Eagle stop taking the train if a Model3 can drive him to work and he can do whatever while on the way, or is the train simply that much faster for him?
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Old 01-11-2018, 01:46 PM   #40
 
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Here's a question, will someone like @Eagle stop taking the train if a Model3 can drive him to work and he can do whatever while on the way, or is the train simply that much faster for him?
Dan would have to go to work for that to happen tho

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Old 01-11-2018, 01:52 PM   #41
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Dan would have to go to work for that to happen tho

LMAO @ that gif !
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Old 01-11-2018, 01:56 PM   #42
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Dan would have to go to work for that to happen tho

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Old 01-11-2018, 01:57 PM   #43
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Here's a question, will someone like @Eagle stop taking the train if a Model3 can drive him to work and he can do whatever while on the way, or is the train simply that much faster for him?
Nope because traffic will not go away, so it'll still be way faster to take pub trans.
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Old 01-11-2018, 02:13 PM   #44
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But according to that study someone posted on here, a lot of traffic comes from people tailgating. And if computers are driving, that should alleviate some of that...but probably not that much.
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Old 01-11-2018, 02:15 PM   #45
 
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Traffic should theoretically decrease when autonomous cars become more prevalent due to the technology allowing better flow of traffic, less accidents, etc.
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Old 01-11-2018, 03:02 PM   #46
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Tesla isn't a traditional auto company. No shit, right? And they don't have traditional relationships with the media. There's no Model 3 press launch or a very large media fleet, which is almost entirely in LA. And that's fine. It sounds like they're trying to change that, however. I just drove an X in Chicago with their new comms person, and it was the first Tesla I've driven since 2012 or 2013.
Get them to send you out here and I'll foot the bill for the rental. I'd love to see the car written about. Or just steal info from my post.
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Old 01-11-2018, 03:05 PM   #47
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Just to clear up confusion on the tax issue, it's a tax credit in the sense that if you owe (or paid) at least $7500 in taxes you would get that back in the form of a check from Uncle Sam. It's not a deduction which would only reduce your income that you're taxed on. So the $7500 is a legit off the top $7500 so long as you will owe or have paid $7500 in that calendar year. It can not be carried over.
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Old 01-11-2018, 03:27 PM   #48
 
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Default The Model 3 is the Half Price Model S Tesla REALLY doesn't want you to Buy Right Now

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Just to clear up confusion on the tax issue, it's a tax credit in the sense that if you owe (or paid) at least $7500 in taxes you would get that back in the form of a check from Uncle Sam. It's not a deduction which would only reduce your income that you're taxed on. So the $7500 is a legit off the top $7500 so long as you will owe or have paid $7500 in that calendar year. It can not be carried over.


Yes but people need to realize unless they magically extend it, Anyone placing an order now is not getting that credit.
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Old 01-12-2018, 04:41 PM   #49
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at 54k i still hardly consider it an everyman car, although it's cheaper than a new s of course. electric car of the people?
$35,000 is the starting price. $49,000 is the first available (cheapest you can get for the next few months) and then $5,000 is tacked on to my price for Autopilot. At $35,000 I'd say it's the car of the people. Is it going to be a kid's first new car purchase? Probably no but is it exponentially more attainable than the S and if you're lucky enough to buy one before the tax credit expires. it will only cost you $27,500.
sure, and that's all well and good, but you're talking about the 54k car and comparing it to a 340i. who is buying the 35k version of the car, what's living with it actually like, and how does it compare to other options in its range? i wouldn't personally apply 'everyman' to it until it starts shining there.

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I think you're taking me a little too literally. We're moving downmarket is the generally point I'm making and we moved downmarket in a big way.
sure, but you also presented it as going from rich person's toy to everyman car, i'd argue it's gone more from rich person's toy to still rather wealthy person's daily.

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Insurance should be (and likely will be) less as we're talking fully autonomous cars here which will be safer than human drivers. Renters will be on the Tesla network and also on camera (inward facing camera built into the rearview mirror) so insurance companies aren't going to charge a premium because you have strangers in your are. Statistically the expensive accidents are with other cars, not vandalism and in theory your autonomous car would never be in an at-fault accident which will lower insurance. There's even talk about Tesla self insuring and I believe Volvo even recently said that by a certain year they will take full responsibility for any accident caused by their autonomous car.
it will be interesting when we get to the day where your insurance is more because you actually want to drive the car vs. let it drive itself... in any case this is the most neat thing i find about the car, if it can make me money while i watch netflix.
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Old 01-12-2018, 04:51 PM   #50
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Seems Ford was smart in scrapping the fusion update.....
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Thats right!!! Another one on my side...once you go z06 you don't go back
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