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Old 12-30-2016, 09:33 PM   #26
 
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@The Beast gave me a great deal on an 03 Cobra. $75k out the door, for a mint 03 Cobra with only 34,000 miles. He even threw in the tint job for free!
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Old 12-30-2016, 09:46 PM   #27
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@The Beast gave me a great deal on an 03 Cobra. $75k out the door, for a mint 03 Cobra with only 34,000 miles. He even threw in the tint job for free!


U got it all wrong look at your paper work again I took in your mustang 3v heap for the price of scrap which is $300 and then I threw in the under coating and nitrogen air in the tires.$74.999 otd
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Old 12-30-2016, 09:52 PM   #28
 
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U got it all wrong look at your paper work again I took in your mustang 3v heap for the price of scrap which is $300 and then I threw in the under coating and nitrogen air in the tires.$74.999 otd
Oh yeah...And the Scotch guard. Another great deal!
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Old 12-30-2016, 10:10 PM   #29
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MIke, have your sister ask more questions on the phone.

What fees do you charge?

Are they negotiable? (they are)

What model do you have in stock that will match what I'm looking for? Options on it? OUT THE DOOR PRICE?

They won't want to give all the info over the phone but, if she convinces them she won't come in unless they do, most salespeople will give her a lot of info.

Once you find a dealership where it sounds good on the phone, tell the salesman to text the agreed on deal to you. Again, they won't want to do this but will if pushed. "I know you are a good dealership and you seem like a good guy but... I have been burned before and want to make sure I will get what we just discussed if I take the time to drive over there. If I will buy the car today, you should have no problem texting the info to me, right?" Hard to say no to that one.

I just helped my younger daughter negotiate a purchase. Half a dozen salespeople were crap then we ran into a good one. He found the car we wanted and took us on a good test drive answering our questions without lying or pushing. He showed us comparable cars so my daughter could decide and gave us a price below the internet price. From comps we had seen, it was a good deal. He did not argue about a couple items I wanted included because they were inexpensive and easily doable. I'm sending a letter to the GM to give the guy a recommendation for his files. Recommendations are gold to salespeople and he deserves it.

Think of it as a game. Find a good salesperson and let them do their job. Firm but polite works best. To a good salesperson, making something is a lot better than making nothing.
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Old 12-30-2016, 11:15 PM   #30
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I worked at a car dealer for a brief stint. It was not for me for several reasons. But I suggest you do these things before you attempt to buy a vehicle.
1. Get pre approved at your bank or credit union. Make them beat that rate. You won't talk payments but real numbers.
2. If you have a trade in, go to carmax first and get a free appraisal. Now you know what your vehicle is really worth. Make them beat carmax' offer.
3.know what rebates and special financing are available for the vehicle you are interested in.
4. Have comparables ready on your phone like from Autotrader or another dealer. Make them beat that price.

The most you can hope for is a fair deal.
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Old 12-30-2016, 11:22 PM   #31
 
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I've had real good luck with a local dealer. Right out of the hole, they came well under Truecar pricing on both cars we have bought from them. Dropped the $100 Nitrogen fee immediately and even suggested, not pressured, GAP either through them or through our car insurance if not putting money into the deal.

I was pressed for time on the last one and they accomodated by being able to do the finance and delivery on my lunch break. Sales guy transferred the plates, a CD I missed, and even the spare change from one car to the other when I was with finance.

On the flip side, I walked into a deal at a Chevy dealer my in laws were in. They tried to pass some GM Smartbuy balloon payment BS on them, arguing if they came back in two years and traded the car they'd just roll it into the next. "It's like leasing without all the negatives" blah blah. At the same time they had an extended warranty written into the deal, too. When I brought that up they argued it was refundable.

I had a similar issue with my local Ford dealer. "No manual trans Fusions out yet, we ran a search". A dealer within 30 minutes had 5 on hand. Did I bring the wife's new manual trans Fusion by the local dealer the next day? Hell yes I did.
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Old 12-30-2016, 11:51 PM   #32
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When I got my 2011 GTI from Autobarn they tried that $1500 (or maybe it was $2000) for some snake oil paint sealant, vent cleaning, tire replacement package and I all but walked out on them. They did the same shit where they told me it was on all of their cars and part of the deal, but in the end that got taken off of my total.

The 2016 was a pleasant buying experience once we got past the whole "that price was an error, the lowest we could possibly go is $3K over the price online" fiasco. Granted that process took 4 hours and multiple "let me go talk to my manager, but I don't think he'll go for it", but I was having a slow day and was sort of humored by the theatrics.
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Old 12-31-2016, 11:29 AM   #33
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My parents bought a new Infiniti last night in Claredon Hills. They were given 1200 more on their trade than CarMax offered. I had them go there so they would have a comparison for trade in value. Leased (low mile year drivers) QX50 for just over 300 a month. Zero down first payment due in February. Pretty solid deal for a 2017.
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Old 12-31-2016, 06:52 PM   #34
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Options that aren't options

Fucking dealers. Tell them to take it off, you don't want it. Or they could just lower the price
They won't and when you ask them why they're forcing you to buy stuff you don't want they just tell you that they have to make money. That's deceptive advertising. You shouldn't be able to advertise a price unless someone can walk in there and buy the car for that price. They get away with this with the "dealer options extra" fine print in the advertisements. Then again, options are optional and these aren't optional.

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This is why I bought my last 4 cars at Carmax.

No fucking around there. Usually.
Yes, and honestly their prices aren't bad on most cars. I would so much rather go there than have to look over my paperwork at a supposedly reputable dealer just to see they've added a ton of garbage.

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Every car in AZ has the Nitrogen tires, tints, and clear bra bullshit too. You can't *not* get it. I forgot the price of it, but $1500 sounds right. They can right fuck off with that.
That's a common thing out here? How is it tolerated?

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A friend of mine worked at Golf Mill Ford, he quit after a month or so of cheating people out of money. He couldn't do it, they would sell a nice rust corrosion package for the new F150's. Granted the frame is still steel but none the less.
See that's the thing. At a dealer like this you basically need to be a thief to make it because if you don't deceive, others will and you'll be out of a job. So the moment you see a single employee defending this practice you know the problem is from ownership down and you can basically write that dealer off.

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We just bought a 3rd car last month and the experience is the same. I know we have some dealer guys on this site and I understand it's a business. But I am really hoping the Tesla model takes off. I hate dealing with the bullshit, and it's always bullshit.
You and I both. I'm absolutely sure there are some people that have made a name for themselves that don't need to do this. The Beast seems to hustle enough that he has people coming to him. That's a way to do things honestly. If he is truly honest, he is in the minority.

Every single experience I've had at a dealer for the last 2 years has been an attempted shaft job. There's this one, then when we leased the i3 in May and they changed all the numbers on me, then when I was trying to lease a Flex and the dealer insisted I buy a $500 immobilizer that they pre-installed on all their cars (and was available on Amazon for $20) and then when I called another local dealer they clutched their pearls when they heard this and told me they did nothing like that, only for me to get there and find out they pre-install LoJack hardware and require you to buy that. I mean what the fuck? I don't get why Ford isn't fighting to sell directly. These guys make the process of buying these cars a confusing jumble of fuckery. I've owned a bunch of business', I structure complex deals, I do my own corporate taxes and I'm good at this stuff and yet I am still confused at the way these guys answer very direct questions. I can't imagine how your average Joe buys a car without having an unwanted service snuck in on him.

[quote=Jeffs FRC;3512635]I've been researching the new Tesla Model 3 and am very intrigued. Very tempted to put the $1000 reserve in and wait. Just wish there was solid facts about the car and interior photos. Plus I want to see what the options will bring the price to.

At this point I wouldn't bother putting down a down payment. You're years away from being able to buy so you may as well wait and see what the final product is going to look like and that's apparently very soon (like next month).

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MIke, have your sister ask more questions on the phone.

What fees do you charge?

Are they negotiable? (they are)

What model do you have in stock that will match what I'm looking for? Options on it? OUT THE DOOR PRICE?

They won't want to give all the info over the phone but, if she convinces them she won't come in unless they do, most salespeople will give her a lot of info.

Once you find a dealership where it sounds good on the phone, tell the salesman to text the agreed on deal to you. Again, they won't want to do this but will if pushed. "I know you are a good dealership and you seem like a good guy but... I have been burned before and want to make sure I will get what we just discussed if I take the time to drive over there. If I will buy the car today, you should have no problem texting the info to me, right?" Hard to say no to that one.

I just helped my younger daughter negotiate a purchase. Half a dozen salespeople were crap then we ran into a good one. He found the car we wanted and took us on a good test drive answering our questions without lying or pushing. He showed us comparable cars so my daughter could decide and gave us a price below the internet price. From comps we had seen, it was a good deal. He did not argue about a couple items I wanted included because they were inexpensive and easily doable. I'm sending a letter to the GM to give the guy a recommendation for his files. Recommendations are gold to salespeople and he deserves it.

Think of it as a game. Find a good salesperson and let them do their job. Firm but polite works best. To a good salesperson, making something is a lot better than making nothing.
This is all great advice but buying a Chevy Volt diehard right-wing, climate change denying, old person driving Phoenix is hard as it is. There aren't very many of them. So right off the bat I was dealing with a weak hand. It was also somewhat of a crime of opportunity. We're on vacation and I didn't want to spend the day or several days chasing deals.

The bottom line is this nonsense shouldn't be allowed. They wear you down. Most people negotiate a price and then don't find out about the doc fees and $1500 package until they're in the finance room and they only find out about it if they look at the numbers. If they don't look they'll never know and most probably don't or don't know where to look.

How is this better for the consumer as the dealer lobby will have you believe? It's not. It's horrible for the consumer. When you're subject to paying for unwanted services unless you know specifically to look for them, how is that to your benefit? And it's not to the manufacturer's benefit because it creates bad will with their customers. I'm pissed at Chevy because Chevy tolerates this. This is ok service as far as they're concerned. And Volkswagen tolerates it too as do a number of other manufactures.

Say what you want about Tesla but the price on the site is the price you pay. There was never any thought in my head that I had to negotiate a better price or that they were going to slip something in on me because it doesn't happen. It's like buying a MacBook. The price is the price.

So I repeat: fuck dealers. If you're an honest person working at an independent dealer you'll be an honest person working at a manufacturer owned dealer in my perfect world. The rest of your kind will expire, crushed by the tides of change, the moment people realize the entire dealer lobby is bullshit. Gee, sure hope there isn't a car people are about to buy 400 or 500k of where they'll instantly realize there's a better way... Oh if only...
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Old 12-31-2016, 07:18 PM   #35
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were's that guy that says selling cars is a high few people get to experience?

when i bought my MDX there was a $700 fee tacked on every used car for any repairs done to the car. they put good name brand new tires on, supposedly changed the oil (i changed it myself a week later), and detailed the car. i guess that's not terrible considering i got new tires, but no where on their website did it list that fee.

i also helped a friend buy his Infiniti at a big dealer and these fuckers were way worse. $1500 interior detailing and warranty package, $500 used car service fee (for repairs and such). so we're working out a deal and they ask what number he wants to pay before tax, title, doc fees etc. so we work out a number, they come back and so ok that's fine. get to doing the paperwork and there's a $400 "vin etching fee" added that no one said anything about. we told them to fuck off since the vin is on every panel anyway. well it's already applied and can't be taken off.
again, no where on their website was any of this garbage listed. they also didn't let him negotiate the price off said used car, we basically went in and negotiated down the add on garbage he didn't want.

fuck car buying and dealerships all together. carmax is great because the advertised price is what you can expect to pay when you walk in. no bullshit, no haggling.
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Old 12-31-2016, 07:23 PM   #36
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Say what you want about Tesla but the price on the site is the price you pay. There was never any thought in my head that I had to negotiate a better price or that they were going to slip something in on me because it doesn't happen. It's like buying a MacBook. The price is the price.
[/url]
this is how all car buying should be. see the price online, pay said price. it's like walking into best buy to buy a TV, then finding out at the register you have to buy the geek squad package, a couch, and a home entertainment system too.
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Old 12-31-2016, 07:44 PM   #37
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this is how all car buying should be. see the price online, pay said price. it's like walking into best buy to buy a TV, then finding out at the register you have to buy the geek squad package, a couch, and a home entertainment system too.
Best Buy are a bunch of fucks too. Website price is different than in store and when you ask about it they make you prove it, then a manager needs to also see and approve the discount.
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Old 12-31-2016, 08:25 PM   #38
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Best Buy are a bunch of fucks too. Website price is different than in store and when you ask about it they make you prove it, then a manager needs to also see and approve the discount.
You just ran into a idiot cashier or they were especially busy (which is why they put the burden to prove it on you), they have a web browser on every workstation at every location (I worked their years back, only a moron doesn't know how to bring up the browser); Best Buy is still around because they will basically match ANY other big vendor currently.

Cashiers can't over-ride the prices, only managers can, it what it is, but its extremely nice.
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Old 01-01-2017, 10:48 PM   #39
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When I bought my Accord coupe two year ago they added $300 for "aftermarket" and when I asked what the fuck aftermarket was the sales man told me how that etch the VIN number in all the glass on the cars because if the car every gets stolen it will be easier to track down the parts or some BS. Fuck, if my car is stolen I don't want the fucker back. Also on my trade I had some aftermaket parts installed such as speakers, HID's lowering kit ect and I told before they appraised the car, that I will return the car to stock for trade. So, they tried to use that against me saying that if I returned the car to stock that my trade would be lower because the "cool" stuff I installed makes the car. Also all the usual haggling a that a dealer does.
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Old 01-02-2017, 09:41 AM   #40
 
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When I bought my Accord coupe two year ago they added $300 for "aftermarket" and when I asked what the fuck aftermarket was the sales man told me how that etch the VIN number in all the glass on the cars because if the car every gets stolen it will be easier to track down the parts or some BS. Fuck, if my car is stolen I don't want the fucker back. Also on my trade I had some aftermaket parts installed such as speakers, HID's lowering kit ect and I told before they appraised the car, that I will return the car to stock for trade. So, they tried to use that against me saying that if I returned the car to stock that my trade would be lower because the "cool" stuff I installed makes the car. Also all the usual haggling a that a dealer does.
you should have told them thats your aftermarket anti theft fee, and the car is less likely to be stolen with those part installed and they wouldnt want that.
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Old 01-02-2017, 11:47 AM   #41
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If all my products had really thin paint and are constantly handled by Porters and Joe schmoes I would want to install protective gear that was more permanent than the rail or truck transport protective gear. And I'd try my damnedest to make money off of something that I had to do just to protect my inventory....

What I love is that they always seem to think it's their prerogative to put their damn name on a sticker in the back. We need a law like the California one to prevent them from doing that without the owner's permission.
let them have their name on license plate frames that you can throw in the trash if you want
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Old 01-02-2017, 05:33 PM   #42
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I've bought a car before where they had preinstalled door edge guards and pinstripes for $750. I refused to pay for it and they declined at first but I walked up to the car and opened the door and peeled off the drivers door edge guard and said "$750 huh? There you can have it back". They took it off (and likely overcharged me somewhere else lol)
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Old 01-02-2017, 07:49 PM   #43
 
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What I love is that they always seem to think it's their prerogative to put their damn name on a sticker in the back. We need a law like the California one to prevent them from doing that without the owner's permission.
let them have their name on license plate frames that you can throw in the trash if you want
My old man always asks, "do you guys send me an advertising check weekly after buying the car?" The salesmen always look at him confused and then he says if he ain't getting a check then they need to take their stickers and plate frames off his damn car before he buys it.
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Old 01-02-2017, 10:42 PM   #44
 
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After reading all this it makes me want to go back to carmax for the next car unless it's a cash sale. I hate salesman and I hate the finance guys. Last time I was haggling they wouldn't accept my offer and wanted an extra $50 so I walked out. Literally nickle and dime you to death.
When we got my wifes car we spent around 12k I think and the gas light was on so I asked them to fill it up....they sure did. Just enough to get the light off and said there you go
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Old 01-02-2017, 10:48 PM   #45
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After reading all this it makes me want to go back to carmax for the next car unless it's a cash sale. I hate salesman and I hate the finance guys. Last time I was haggling they wouldn't accept my offer and wanted an extra $50 so I walked out. Literally nickle and dime you to death.
When we got my wifes car we spent around 12k I think and the gas light was on so I asked them to fill it up....they sure did. Just enough to get the light off and said there you go
Get all the details in writing. Before you sign. If the saleperson gives you hassles, go elsewhere.
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Old 01-02-2017, 10:49 PM   #46
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I think people don't realize that now it's not the salesmen that get you; it's the finance guys. The salesman will negotiate a price with you and you'll walk into finance with your guard down, proud of the great deal you just negotiated. And they're hoping that you don't notice the $500 doc fee or the $1500 in dealer added options. And then there's the numbers which almost never exactly match up. Dealers have smartened up and they try to give you the win with the sales guy only to have finance snatch that money right back from you.
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Old 01-02-2017, 10:50 PM   #47
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I think people don't realize that now it's not the salesmen that get you; it's the finance guys. The salesman will negotiate a price with you and you'll walk into finance with your guard down, proud of the great deal you just negotiated. And they're hoping that you don't notice the $500 doc fee or the $1500 in dealer added options. And then there's the numbers which almost never exactly match up. Dealers have smartened up and they try to give you the win with the sales guy only to have finance snatch that money right back from you.
Again, don't sign until you understand and are happy with the deal. Walking towards the door is a powerful bargaining tool. Sales people and finance people see their money walking away. Take the entire contract for review if you want. They won't like it but they'll give you the paperwork if you are firm. If they won't, there are plenty of other dealers.
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Old 01-03-2017, 08:55 AM   #48
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I think people don't realize that now it's not the salesmen that get you; it's the finance guys. The salesman will negotiate a price with you and you'll walk into finance with your guard down, proud of the great deal you just negotiated. And they're hoping that you don't notice the $500 doc fee or the $1500 in dealer added options. And then there's the numbers which almost never exactly match up. Dealers have smartened up and they try to give you the win with the sales guy only to have finance snatch that money right back from you.
& sales manager dicks.
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Old 01-03-2017, 09:06 AM   #49
 
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Originally Posted by Mike K View Post
I think people don't realize that now it's not the salesmen that get you; it's the finance guys. The salesman will negotiate a price with you and you'll walk into finance with your guard down, proud of the great deal you just negotiated. And they're hoping that you don't notice the $500 doc fee or the $1500 in dealer added options. And then there's the numbers which almost never exactly match up. Dealers have smartened up and they try to give you the win with the sales guy only to have finance snatch that money right back from you.
Yep.... My buddy just went into a dealer and offered a cash amount on an Evo and they basically said they'd rather someone finance it instead of paying cash... Wouldn't even move off their number after they heard cash.

Guessing that's where the money comes from now....
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Old 01-03-2017, 09:41 AM   #50
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Yep.... My buddy just went into a dealer and offered a cash amount on an Evo and they basically said they'd rather someone finance it instead of paying cash... Wouldn't even move off their number after they heard cash.

Guessing that's where the money comes from now....
I know someone who recently experienced this; they financed it through the dealer in the end to get the best deal, and literally paid it off the next day in cash...
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