Is the EPA going to end custom tuning for the masses?

[Eagle]

Coming out of SEMA this year we have a number of big names in the tuning industry being very concerned about the EPA becoming very strict on emissions related tuning, which includes pretty much any and all modifications you can think of, straight down to your air filter and spark plugs.

Anyone who calls themselves a motorcycle enthusiast is probably aware of the EPA settlement with Harley:

https://www.epa.gov/newsreleases/ha...-increased-air-pollution-companys-motorcycles

In a nutshell, Harley is being forced to stop selling emissions altering exhaust and other components to their customers and were assessed a $12 million dollar "civil penalty" fine.

Then of course, you have Volkswagen diesel scandal, resulting in some 450,000 cars being taken off the roads or "fixed" according to EPA guidelines after VW sold vehicles which cheated the system.

Next up, you've got the diesel performance market in the likes of H&S, Caspers and Edge:

Since 2007, the EPA has brought 3 enforcement cases against automotive aftermarket companies for selling "defeat devices" — defined as parts or services that illegally tamper with emissions systems on road-going vehicles. The fines reflected reductions based on the companies' ability to pay.
• Casper's Electronics Inc., 2007: A consent agreement with the EPA and Department of Justice ordered the company to pay $80,000 for selling some 44,000 plug-in oxygen "simulators" that could send a false signal to the vehicle's computer that its emissions controls were functioning properly even if they had been disabled or removed. Casper's also was required to recall the product, pay refunds to buyers and destroy its remaining inventory.
• Edge Products, 2013: Company was fined $500,000 for selling electronic products that allowed owners of diesel pickups to operate them without the diesel particulate filter and emit clouds of black exhaust smoke. Edge also had to spend at least $157,600 on projects to mitigate the excess emissions caused by the units.
• H&S Performance, 2015: The truck-tuning company was hit with a $1 million fine for selling thousands of devices for diesel pickups that allowed owners to disable diesel particulate filters and exhaust-gas recirculation systems.
Source: EPA

Of course the EPA says to relax, no ban for racers is in their plans (yet).

http://www.autonews.com/article/20160215/OEM11/302159901/epa-target-is-defeat-devices-not-racers

But with the increased number of crackdowns happening at the manufacturing and tuner level, how can one suggest no such crack down is occurring as you read this? Cut off the source of the changes and you've effectively cut off the hot rod community from their passion for performance.

At the heart of all this crackdown is the EPA. Everyone knows the EPA - they seem pretty harmless, right? Well, they have a close partner in "crime" the OECA.

https://www.epa.gov/aboutepa/about-office-enforcement-and-compliance-assurance-oeca

OECA works with EPA regional offices, and in partnership with state and tribal governments, and other federal agencies to enforce the nation’s environmental laws, including:
Clean Air Act (CAA)
Clean Water Act (CWA)
Comprehensive Environmental Response, Compensation and Liability Act (CERCLA, or Superfund)
Emergency Planning and Community Right-to-Know Act (EPCRA)
Federal Insecticide, Fungicide, and Rodenticide Act (FIFRA)
Marine Protection, Research and Sanctuaries Act
National Environmental Policy Act (NEPA)
Oil Pollution Act (OPA)
Resource Conservation and Recovery Act (RCRA)
Safe Drinking Water Act (SDWA)
Toxic Substances Control Act (TSCA)

That's a fun list of enforcement efforts... ahem... projects.

Anyway... the hot rod community has heard threats about the EPA ending our fun... could this be the beginning?

A few slides from SEMA that are floating around the internet to give these claims a bit more weight and hopefully churn up the conversation:

Click to read more...

 

[Chet Donnelly]

Even more reason we can't have Hillary win. She sure as hell won't even consider curbing the EPA and their bullshit!

I would recommend everyone here join the SEMA Action Network. They will provide you email/letter templates to send to your political representatives regarding laws that try to hurt motorsports and the auto hobbies.

http://www.semasan.com/page.asp?content=startpage&g=semaga

 

[1quick]

I could see the Harley exhaust deal being a conflict of interest, it would be like a Chevy dealer taking the cats off your corvette for you, and I hope not to all the other stuff, I'll be sticking with my current car for a long time if they ban tuning

 

[OffshoreDrilling]

to play devils advocate, does anyone here have a valid argument why an OEM has to comply with emissions and epa regulations and you as individual should not? There are plenty of regulations you're already abiding by, why is a car any different?

 

[Bruce Jibboo]

well they are going after OEM and after market, why we can't get deletes for dezuls without a tuner capable of applying a semi underground tune.. I think they'll go after the money (companies) first.

 

[Eagle]

The real question shouldn't be questioning the people, but the laws themselves. If in fact, modifications to cars represented a significant negative impact on the environment - then YES, it would make sense that we should do something meaningful to manage that impact.

But - I'm willing to bet no such significant impact exists - which should lead one to question why the laws the EPA are running around enforcing right now need to exist in the first place.

One should question what financial impact such actions will have across the automotive industry. Not just at the OEM level, but at the performance parts level, performance shop level, tuner level. How much of a negative impact would shutting down this industry have on the people who enjoy the hobby, but more so, those employed by it?

 

[Eagle]

Nobody cares about the hobbyist or the folks employed by the evil market that is "polluting their air."

I would love to know where all the fines that the EPA rakes in over these issues goes to and how its used once collected.

 

[Rent Free]

this is the same as the vw emissions ordeal.

banning tuning i dont think will ever happen and if it does i promise someone will figure out away the so called locked or tamper proof electronics and controls.

if modifying vehicles is so bad then lets see them ban every single form of racing and motorsports.

its all hype and its not going to happen.

 

[Gone_2022]

Like I said in past threads regarding this. My TA drives less then 1000 miles a year. I put 24k on my Cruze last year. My Cruze had a larger impact on the environment over my TA.

I will never follow the EPA guidelines. They are a joke of an organization.

 

[Chet Donnelly]

Everyone should also question why the government continues to try and control more and more aspects of your life and choices everyday....

 

[Eagle]

Like I said in past threads regarding this. My TA drives less then 1000 miles a year. I put 24k on my Cruze last year. My Cruze had a larger impact on the environment over my TA.

I will never follow the EPA guidelines. They are a joke of an organization.

Yeah, until they start scanning your car and enforcing the $3750 fees they can assess against you as the owner of the modified vehicle...

 

[ragingclue]

The amount of money it would take to eliminate the industry completely is unfathomable. At some point, the public would do well to audit the EPA and analyze cost-benefit analyses on these personal vehicle witch hunts.

Our ROI as taxpayers is better spent elsewhere, even if still spending within the jurisdiction of the EPA. But of course they're just one of a long list of government organizations facing no accountability from within.

 

[Bruce Jibboo]

Everyone should also question why the government continues to try and control more and more aspects of your life and choices everyday....

exactly and this is the bigger picture, slowly chipping away, there are certainly "less restrictive" parts of the country, but this govt is way more out of control than being own by Great Britain.

 

[Gone_2022]

Yeah, until they start scanning your car and enforcing the $3750 fees they can assess against you as the owner of the modified vehicle...

There is always ways to beat them. I will register the car as a show car or race vehicle then.

Mileage restriction? Ok I will have my mileage adjusted prior to going in for "Inspection"

Need Cats? Ok I will swap my mid pipes out in 20 minutes before I go to have the car tested.

Need to be stock tune? Ok I will trailer it down the street from the test facility, load a stock tune in and get tested.


They honestly will never be able to really end our car scene. At least I do not believe in our lifetime. I will honestly do anything and everything in my power to ignore them

 

[Bob Kazamakis]

I remember the caspers thing. I had o2 sims from them.

I thought these companies got around this stuff by just simply saying it was for off-road only?

 

[SleeperLS]

I would be OK if the EPA came down on egr deletion on deisels.

 

[Eagle]

There is always ways to beat them. I will register the car as a show car or race vehicle then.

Mileage restriction? Ok I will have my mileage adjusted prior to going in for "Inspection"

Need Cats? Ok I will swap my mid pipes out in 20 minutes before I go to have the car tested.

Need to be stock tune? Ok I will trailer it down the street from the test facility, load a stock tune in and get tested.


They honestly will never be able to really end our car scene. At least I do not believe in our lifetime. I will honestly do anything and everything in my power to ignore them

Yeah? How about when the cops just start hooking to your ODBII when you're stopped for street racing or even just speeding? Simple compare against a stock tune file could tell them all they need to know about your car that isn't in a proper emission ready state.

Regardless, if they shut down all the prominent sources for these types of mods, who in their right mind sets out to fill the shoes of those the EPA will fine out of existence? No one, that's who.

Then where do we go for our mods?

 

[LikeABauce302]

The EPA is getting bold lately. With all of the money they are raking in from VW and now Harley, its only a matter of time before they start going after the aftermarket companies.

 

[ragingclue]

If that situation pans out, people would know what to expect and could plan accordingly.

It would not be hard to make a stock read (binary same) come out of your OBDII port.

It's cat and mouse. As long as the procedures on their end are known, there is a way around. Exhausting taxpayer money going after it is crazy, considering how little environmental damage they'd be saving.

 

[Gone_2022]

Yeah? How about when the cops just start hooking to your ODBII when you're stopped for street racing or even just speeding? Simple compare against a stock tune file could tell them all they need to know about your car that isn't in a proper emission ready state.

Regardless, if they shut down all the prominent sources for these types of mods, who in their right mind sets out to fill the shoes of those the EPA will fine out of existence? No one, that's who.

Then where do we go for our mods?

I mean something like that is going to the crazy extreme. Same thing now with Tints. I have tints on all my vehicles and I have never had them check the percentage when I was pulled over for other things.

Interesting to follow but I do not foresee a major issue for us anytime in the near future.

 

[Rent Free]

Yeah? How about when the cops just start hooking to your ODBII when you're stopped for street racing or even just speeding? Simple compare against a stock tune file could tell them all they need to know about your car that isn't in a proper emission ready state.

Regardless, if they shut down all the prominent sources for these types of mods, who in their right mind sets out to fill the shoes of those the EPA will fine out of existence? No one, that's who.

Then where do we go for our mods?

cmon man playing devils advocate pretty hard in this thread.....

best have a warrant to search inside my vehicle.

are you saying police should have a "stock" file of every vehicle on the road readily available at their disposal to compare to?

where will we go for our mods? simple to the people that care enough to work around the system. no system is unbeatable especially electronics.

only way govt. could stop people from modding vehicles is to ban them entirely good freaking luck with that.

or option B is always an option move to or live in ND where no one gives a crap about emission checks or tint or front plates or whatever else.

we dont have epa police around here.

 

[Rent Free]

The EPA is getting bold lately. With all of the money they are raking in from VW and now Harley, its only a matter of time before they start going after the aftermarket companies.

No they are going after OEMs who are scamming the system i have zero pity for VW they blatantly scammed the system and got caught.

aftermarkets have far less requirements to follow. its is the end users responsibility.

 

[Gone_2022]

Emissions do not even exist now outside of the Chicago metro area. Go 30 miles outside into Kendall county etc and as far south to close to St. Louis and there is no testing

 

[guspech750]

Funny this thread came up shortly after reading that Chevrolet was installing factory go fast parts trying to see how fast a Camaro SS could run.

The way I see it. I think Ford, GM, Dodge etc are pushing this crap. Trying to get rid of aftermarket tuning and parts so they can swoop into this industry and make us buy their EPA approved and way more expensive parts and modified tunes.

What ever. World is falling apart.

 

[ragingclue]

They are going after the aftermarket, but they can't kill it that way. It's all just another big money grab aimed at juicy targets.

I could understand aggressively going after cat/DPF deletes, but anything beyond that deserves a big "fuck you". Things like requiring OE cats, can't tune your car, fucking spark plug restrictions, etc... fucking extortion. I'd be fine if everybody just had to pass a sniff test, regardless of what you've had done. I mean, isn't that supposed to be their concern...? If it passes emissions, how in the hell can they justify going after anything beyond that...?