Your preference: A capable car or a capable driver?
- Thread starter Mike K
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And now my preference. I've caught light hearted shit here and elsewhere for talking about how much I love that the BMW makes me a better driver than I am. If you hit the DTC button once it will loosen up stability control and let you get the ass out as far as you want without the fear that you'll lose it. If you get too crazy it will catch and correct you. But it makes me a more confident driver without getting stupid. I enjoy the car more because it's so predictable and able to handle itself if I can't. In the enthusiast world this is sacrilege.
I don't consider myself a great driver. I'd much rather have a car that makes me a better driver than I am. I don't mind having nannies that will save my ass if I get stupid.
For me, I'd much rather have a car that will consistently drive at an 8 with minimal fuss than a car that will drive at a 5 most of the time and a 10 if Mario Andretti is behind the wheel.
I don't consider myself a great driver. I'd much rather have a car that makes me a better driver than I am. I don't mind having nannies that will save my ass if I get stupid.
For me, I'd much rather have a car that will consistently drive at an 8 with minimal fuss than a car that will drive at a 5 most of the time and a 10 if Mario Andretti is behind the wheel.
Drove an rx7 in lemons without any real aids other then hydraulic brake and enjoyed it but that was on the track. If it started oversteering you just unwound the wheel a bit and put your foot down to plant the rear. On my mazda 3 I hate hate hate traction control on it. If I want oversteer, that is what I want in it. So on my underpowered cars I don't want it.
At times I wish my 300zx at least had traction control just because it can bite you if boost comes on and the tires are cold, or you hit gravel. Would I want it for the track, no. But it is a bit of a handful in the fall if you aren't paying attention.
Drove a GT-R at autobahn for 3 laps. I will take its nanny drive it for me no problemo.
At times I wish my 300zx at least had traction control just because it can bite you if boost comes on and the tires are cold, or you hit gravel. Would I want it for the track, no. But it is a bit of a handful in the fall if you aren't paying attention.
Drove a GT-R at autobahn for 3 laps. I will take its nanny drive it for me no problemo.
if i cared about drag racing i'd go with magical technology to help me launch since i suck at it and figure it will be better than me beating on the car learning it.
at tracks the sti was a lot of fun, and the awd was definitely allowing me to get away with things a rwd car would not let slide so easily (or would, har har?)
the brz is more fun, and i'm learning more with it. especially if i turn off more levels of traction control and and feel more/need to do more.
i'm sure a gtr would be fun for a spin around a track, although i get a lot more fun using and improving my own skills rather than attributing some lap time to mostly just the car.
at tracks the sti was a lot of fun, and the awd was definitely allowing me to get away with things a rwd car would not let slide so easily (or would, har har?)
the brz is more fun, and i'm learning more with it. especially if i turn off more levels of traction control and and feel more/need to do more.
i'm sure a gtr would be fun for a spin around a track, although i get a lot more fun using and improving my own skills rather than attributing some lap time to mostly just the car.
I think it's about usable horsepower. The hellcat is an awesome car, but it can't use the power it has with street tires. Listening to Eagle talk at Lukes that even after all the suspension mods and the wider tires, 1st and 2nd is unusable and he loses the tires at the top of third. This is why Mercedes is switching to AWD for their AMG line and now there is even talk that the next BMW M5 will be AWD. The number seems to be around 450 - 500 hp for rear wheel drive cars on street tires.
i would think you need more qualifications on the question. i mean you've got a drag video, but then go on to talk about yourself in the turns. in my response i separated out both as well and i prefer something different in each.
actually once i have a tune i will probably try out the flat foot shifting as well as the auto-blip down that ecutek can do on track. it should totally improve how smooth particularly my braking and downshifting is done, although is definitely less skill and less fun. i am curious to try it out and see if i will end up mixing it up during sessions or what. it is some computer magics help i could use.
actually once i have a tune i will probably try out the flat foot shifting as well as the auto-blip down that ecutek can do on track. it should totally improve how smooth particularly my braking and downshifting is done, although is definitely less skill and less fun. i am curious to try it out and see if i will end up mixing it up during sessions or what. it is some computer magics help i could use.
My take.
My TA had no traction control, not even ABS. I could drive that car no problem... In a straight line anyways - because that's what it was built to do.
The GT500 however... Has slightly less power than the TA did. It is a much more "balanced" car in that it has much better brakes and suspension and is capable of turning decently. It also has traction control, stability control, launch control and ABS... Just to name a few. Its WAY more sketchy (read: entertaining) to drive than the TA was though.
For me, I have too much money wrapped up in this car to trust my driving ability alone to control it in all situations. On the street, leaving all the nannies de-sensitized-BUT ON- make the car much more enjoyable to drive than it would be otherwise.
At the track (drag strip) though, nannies are OFF and it's balls to the walls if you want the most out of the car. Even with launch control, the car is slower, albeit easier to launch.
In summary, I'll take nannies all day long for a safer and more enjoyable street car, at the track though, you best bet they're all turned off.
My TA had no traction control, not even ABS. I could drive that car no problem... In a straight line anyways - because that's what it was built to do.
The GT500 however... Has slightly less power than the TA did. It is a much more "balanced" car in that it has much better brakes and suspension and is capable of turning decently. It also has traction control, stability control, launch control and ABS... Just to name a few. Its WAY more sketchy (read: entertaining) to drive than the TA was though.
For me, I have too much money wrapped up in this car to trust my driving ability alone to control it in all situations. On the street, leaving all the nannies de-sensitized-BUT ON- make the car much more enjoyable to drive than it would be otherwise.
At the track (drag strip) though, nannies are OFF and it's balls to the walls if you want the most out of the car. Even with launch control, the car is slower, albeit easier to launch.
In summary, I'll take nannies all day long for a safer and more enjoyable street car, at the track though, you best bet they're all turned off.
[MENTION=12]Bru[/MENTION] is also one of the most legit drivers I know! (And he was driving the auto, where the hellcat in the vid is clearly a manual).
X2 on usable power.
I like owning a car that has just enough power that if I get stupid with it I know it will kill me. Helps me know my own limits, and in safe environments I can test its limits.
X2 on what eagle said, nannies on the street are nice.
Yep, my 335xi was so easy I could outrun 4x4 trucks in a blizzard
. With that bimmer in crap conditions I would completely disable all the nannies because the awd worked so well in the snow when you put your foot in it. The TA still has TC and ABS but I disable it for the track. 1st and 2nd work for shit on the street so I peddle it to get enough traction depending on the conditions. I put alot of work into keeping that car going straight that I feel confident in driving it except if there is a turn.
I meant usable power for the driver I suppose. I know I sound wishy washy, but for me my mustang is plenty, but I know in time it won't be. But I also won't toss a blower on it until I'm confident I won't put it immediately into a ditch
I would argue the car isn't making you a better driver, it's just making it look like you are a better driver. I would say that it is actually degrading your driving skill, as you are likely to become more complacent, and when you hop into a car without those driver aids, you will be ill-prepared to correct a potential mistake. Just my .02 on those driver aids. No doubt that they are spectacular, and allow you to do things in cars that you would otherwise not be able to do.
As for the OT, I would say the Tesla, is far and away, the better overall car. Fit, finish, usability, tech, you name it, the Telsa likely does it better. The Hellcat is a massive motor is a mediocre chassis. It seems like it would be gobs of fun, but just not a great overall car.
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