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Old 04-24-2013, 01:46 PM   #1
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Default Any Dodge techs around?

Please step in and lend a hand here, I'm closing on wit's end and unsurprisingly, the Skittle boards are as "Helpful" as ever.

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I'd like to start off by stating that my car's prior owners were electrical hacks of unparallelled stupidity. Also, excuse the rambling. I've been awake thirty hours.

That said, I'm having a rash of issues the last week that I'd love some extra grey matter thinking on. Car began developing an intermittent, seemingly lean condition, primarily upon clutch disengaged, decel. Directly following, it began dying with no forewarning. Come to a stop, goes momentarily full-lean and shuts off before being allowed to be restarted.

At this point, I limp it to my grandfathers, whereupon it completely dies. Would crank, but not run. Fully assuming it's the ASD causing trouble, I swap it's relay with one tested good (horn) and try cranking it. It roars to life and remains happily idling for some ten minutes. At this point, I try to pull out and drive it home to my garage for a further look- Only to have it again completely die some twenty feet away.

Checked the fuses (none blown), again looked over the relays, looked over my grounds (Rad Support, Head, Bellhousing, and one or two other of my own creation), the Wally primes occasionally, everything seems mostly fine at surface level. Pulling the stored DTCs yields: "P0685- ASD relay control circuit" and
"P0688- ASD relay sense circuit low" and it still again will not run. I have the pile of sh*t towed home and call it quits for the night.

The next day, at home following a PCM reset, I pull codes again: "P0508- IAC valve sense circuit low", "P0522- oil pressure sensor low" and "P0243- WG solenoid circuit". The car has a new Oil Switch, that admittedly has not worked properly since installation. As for the WG code, the OE wires were not attached to a Resistor upon installation of my Boost Box several weeks back, as it did not come included. At this juncture, I again cut 12v by flipping my breaker and go back to work. The car has as said, proven to carry some interesting electrical work, so I immediately pulled the underhood junction box to assess the condition of the ASD sockets and all wiring. Everything checked out. I also checked and cleaned the PCM connectors, grounds, ensured that the Noise Suppression cap hadn't found a way to short itself, examined the engine harness connector on the bulkhead, re-tested or swapped fuses and relays and started the car. It again ran fine for several minutes, also drove normally until I went WOT, whereupon it lost fuel (Bogged, AFRs pegged lean) and died. Another ten minutes of poking the relays and it again started, idled and drove passably back the two blocks home. Another PCM reset via breaker, and it yielded only the WG DTC.

On a whim, I now went and purchased a new relay and replaced the original ASD with it. The car again started, idled, cruised and went WOT fine. But upon a clutch released (unloaded) decel, from ONLY fifth gear, again momentarily stumbles and goes lean, before either dying or richening out, pendent upon throttle application.

I cannot find any truly worthwhile threads searching repeatedly for information, any help or suggestions would be greatly appreciated. I will also have my DMM back in my possession today, which should help immensely.


Pertinent Mods:
-Stage 3r
-DSIntune tuned, e85.
-888cc injectors.
-1.5k mile Wally 255, BNF.
-3 Bar MAP sensors.
-Boost Box.
-etc, etc, etc.
As said, skittle forums are of NO help, which is unsurprising, as I'm not asking how to rattle-can my OEM wheels, or how to install seven parallel turbo timers.
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Old 04-24-2013, 01:48 PM   #2
 
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@SRT41320
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Old 04-24-2013, 01:51 PM   #3
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As said, skittle forums are of NO help, which is unsurprising, as I'm not asking how to rattle-can my OEM wheels, or how to install seven parallel turbo timers.
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Old 04-24-2013, 01:53 PM   #4
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I need smokes, so I think I'm going to try and catch this shit on Video. Be back in a few...
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Old 04-24-2013, 05:18 PM   #5
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IDCs looking fine and nothing too terrible showing up on the Fuel Gauge.

[YOUTUBEHD]jcMAFhQ49gE[/YOUTUBEHD]

Issue appears @2:53 and 4:34.
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Old 04-24-2013, 05:19 PM   #6
 
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I tagged Rodger (srt41320)...hopefullly he comes in.
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Old 04-24-2013, 05:23 PM   #7
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My truck went into limp mode because my nitrous solenoid had a draw on the ground.

My truck went into limp mode in cold weather cause of my 20 degree cooler thermostat.

Limp mode can be caused by the dumbest of things

Check the sensors for voltage to make sure there sending back the correct signal strength
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Old 04-24-2013, 05:42 PM   #8
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HI! lol thanks Mook... it sounds like an intermittent fuel pump/pressure issue except for your Codes... I cannot get the damn youtube video to load so right now my best guess without being there...

run a hard wire to the pump (rig it if you have to - as its only for testing) need to know if the fuel is the issue...im guessing it is - then start tracing the circuit back asd relay and fuse are good then start looking for what else is on that same circuit...
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Old 04-24-2013, 05:46 PM   #9
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dodges still have asd relays?

i remember the ecu and asd issues i used to repair on the old K cars/vans

check your grounds though a ckt low code series usually means a short to ground, find the common routing between those circuits and likely youll find a body harness rubbed through or maybe an aftermarket alarm/system pulling something to ground
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3800>all other technology ever
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Old 04-24-2013, 06:17 PM   #10
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To me it sounds more like a bad ECU ground.
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Old 04-24-2013, 06:18 PM   #11
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whatever is in that circuit... unplug one at a time until the problem is gone... BAM theres the problem

use the KISS method...

Keep
It
Simple
Stupid
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Old 04-24-2013, 06:56 PM   #12
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Jump the ASD relay and hot wire the pump and see what happens.
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Old 04-24-2013, 07:25 PM   #13
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Burn car to ground!
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Old 04-24-2013, 07:32 PM   #14
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also - when did this start happening... rain? car wash? after you changed the oil? etc.?
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Old 04-25-2013, 06:15 PM   #15
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updates?
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Old 04-25-2013, 06:18 PM   #16
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Asks for help, gets help and no where to be found..... FAIL
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Old 04-26-2013, 03:02 AM   #17
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Sorry about that. Had a burst water heater to wrastle with!

I'm guessing it's electrical, not a fuel system competent failure due to the runs while monitoring pressure. It's regulated via an LS1 Corvette external FPR/Filter @58lbs, which it did not wander from. In fact, pressure was spot on during the "Hiccups".

I was considering jumping/bypassing the ASD circuit, but honestly, I'm not entirely sure how to go about doing so. It quite literally controls 3/4 the car's operation, grounded via the PCM.

Quote:
DESCRIPTION
The ASD relay is located in the PDC (Fig. 1). The
inside top of the PDC cover has label showing relay
and fuse identification.


OPERATION
The Automatic Shutdown (ASD) relay supplies bat-
tery voltage to the fuel injectors, electronic ignition
coil and the heating elements in the oxygen sensors.
A buss bar in the Power Distribution Center (PDC)
supplies voltage to the solenoid side and contact side
of the relay. The fuse also protects the power circuit
for the fuel pump relay and pump. The fuse is
located in the PDC. Refer to the Wiring Diagrams for
circuit information.
The PCM controls the ASD relay by switching the
ground path for the solenoid side of the relay on and
off. The PCM turns the ground path off when the
ignition switch is in the Off position. When the igni-
tion switch is in On or Start, the PCM monitors the
crankshaft and camshaft position sensor signals to
determine engine speed and ignition timing (coil
dwell). If the PCM does not receive crankshaft and
camshaft position sensor signals when the ignition
switch is in the Run position, it will de-energize the
ASD relay.
http://www.carbide-red.com/service_m...zoom=auto,0,74

Come to think of it, re-re-rechecking the PCM grounds would not be a terrible idea I suppose.

Also, I <3 you guys. lol.
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Old 04-26-2013, 06:00 AM   #18
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I know I'm a lot of the dodges I use to work on. youd have a component shorted to ground on a5 volt buss which would kill a whole group of sensors
so maybe check your 5v reference lines for any shorts to ground and then start unplugging components
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Old 04-26-2013, 06:02 AM   #19
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If I recall on one of um it affects the crank and cam position sensors
which is the PCM is not seeing an RPM signal it will disable the ASD relay and kill the pump in everything
basically it wouldn't know you were cranking over the motor

This f****** smart phone is going to revolutionize me helping people/making an ass of myself
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Old 04-26-2013, 06:03 AM   #20
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Technology still sucks


Dont think ive gone soft....
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Old 04-26-2013, 07:35 AM   #21
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I wasn't saying your pump IS bad - just telling you how to prove it... and also bypass the asd if it were cutting power to the pump.

check ALL your grounds!

get a diagram and see how the circuits you had a code for and the ASD (wastegate, oil pressure and IAC)

I noticed a lot of signals go through C101 (im assuming some sort of bulk connector) - maybe some of these sensors share a common GROUND... the diagram shows most signals are 5 volt then grounded by the engine - so grounds are key - go to the store and get a couple extra cable and run new grounds from the chassis to the engine and one to the trans maybe...
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Old 04-26-2013, 08:15 AM   #22
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Could it be something simple like an ignition switch issue?

Something jiggling loose? From the ASD description, its primary function it sounds it to shut down and regulate a number of systems with the ign?
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Old 04-26-2013, 11:50 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Turbocharged400sbc View Post
If I recall on one of um it affects the crank and cam position sensors
which is the PCM is not seeing an RPM signal it will disable the ASD relay and kill the pump in everything
basically it wouldn't know you were cranking over the motor
That would certainly be feasible. Loss of signal from either the crank or cam pickups could sure as hell cause something like this. As far as why it would do so at such a peculiar moment is utterly beyond me.

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Originally Posted by SRT41320 View Post
I wasn't saying your pump IS bad - just telling you how to prove it... and also bypass the asd if it were cutting power to the pump.

check ALL your grounds!

get a diagram and see how the circuits you had a code for and the ASD (wastegate, oil pressure and IAC)

I noticed a lot of signals go through C101 (im assuming some sort of bulk connector) - maybe some of these sensors share a common GROUND... the diagram shows most signals are 5 volt then grounded by the engine - so grounds are key - go to the store and get a couple extra cable and run new grounds from the chassis to the engine and one to the trans maybe...
No, no, I understood you, Buddy. Was just saying that I was hesitant to solder some leads onto my pump wiring to test whilst attempting to recreate the issue, when it's already shown to be up to snuff as far as monitoring pressure can show.

The Oil switch actually does feed through the ASD if memory serves, I'd have to double check the schematics though.

C101, you are correct on. I think that is one of the (three) primary plugs going to the PCM. Further, I had an IAC code for that short while, the IAC valve being on C101... I'm getting a headache looking currently (been a long day), but I do keep throwing the code for the disconnected (cut and replaced with the wiring from the N2MB boost box) boost solenoid. I'd almost be unsurprised if that also was on C101.

Grounds are getting poured over and cleaned up for the fifth time today without a doubt. Also definitely adding a further ground or two, seeing as how I believe the PCM is partially grounded via it's mounting frame, I'll also toss one from it to the bellhousing or girdle for shits and giggles.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dasfinc View Post
Could it be something simple like an ignition switch issue?

Something jiggling loose? From the ASD description, its primary function it sounds it to shut down and regulate a number of systems with the ign?
Ign switch isn't likely. There is a connector that handles the multifunction switch and ignition in the column, however, that people have experienced issues with. It's the same connector that caused a few skittles to go up in flames back in the day.

You are correct. The ASD handles 3/4 the car's drive-ability.



Fuck do I have one whopper of a headache. I've got no problems admitting many parts of my training in the electrical diagnostics department was skimped on.
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Old 04-27-2013, 10:50 AM   #24
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if the boost box goes through c101 - could it be a bad boost box? causing 5volt signal short to ground or something maybe?
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Old 04-27-2013, 12:58 PM   #25
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electrical diagnostics is like making a woman achieve an orgasm by breathing on her...your gonna succed eventually but still look like an idiot overlooking the obvious faster solution....

ps always start near the bottom of diagnostic flowcharts after verifying primary powers and grounds.

shit man voltage drop tests are your friend, i used to have a couple lights and rheostat with jumper leads so i could simulate 5-10amp loads
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