Dealer (and I) were WRONG!

[Flyn]

Guys and girls, here's another Cadillac Seville thread for your viewing pleasure...

I knew the radio, chimes and Onstar did not work when I bought my Cadillac. I specifically asked the dealer who did the pre purchase inspection about this problem and they told me "The amplifier needs replacing". They even wrote the diagnosis on the PPI.

I replaced the amplifier and still no radio, chimes or Onstar. The clock works in the radio and a CD will load and eject so the radio is getting power. None of the radio displays work except for the clock. No sound. It's like the radio is Off.

Can anyone point me in the right direction for diagnosis?

I sent an email to the car's seller asking them if, maybe, they had installed a replacement radio. I don't think they did but, if so, that would explain the symptoms since a new radio would need a dealer code to work properly.

I disconnected the battery on the off chance that resetting the system will get the radio/chimes/Onstar back. In 30 mins. I will reconnect. Not very hopeful it will help but I don't know what to do otherwise. I detest these interconnected system devices.

Click to read more...

 

[Turbocharged400sbc]

if it had an aftermarket radio in it and demoded to the stocker, then youll probably find a buncha hacked wires behind it

 

[Turbocharged400sbc]

oh and the dealer/tech thats trying to ge tthe work will throw out one of the common issues....never go buy what is said...no diagnosis was performed unless you paid specifically for diagnostic time....so quit going by whats on the sheet.

too many cheap fucks with "oh can you check this out" and dont wanna pay but are more than willing to believe the first possibility thats tossed out there then go home and fixit themselves....or at least they replace a buncha parts that dont fix it then they bring it back to ya...

 

[Flyn]

The dealer gave me an estimate for $630 for amplifier replacement to fix the radio/chimes/Onstar problem. I asked the service writer twice how confident they were with the diagnosis and got assurances this was the problem.

I assumed that meant the mechanic had previous experience with this issue and knew the cause. Why say "amplifier" if you don't know for sure? I paid the dealer to check the car out before I bought it. If they weren't sure, they should not have made a specific diagnosis.

If making my own repairs when I feel capable makes me a cheap fuck, so be it. I guess I should just drop the car off, let the dealer rack up a $2,000 bill and then happily pay?

As I mentioned in the other thread, I fixed/replaced both mirrors for $115, skipping the dealer's $1,200 estimate. Still a cheap fuck, I guess. :smile:

 

[Flyn]

Seller said the radio stopped working a month or two before I bought the car. She's an old woman and not the aftermarket type. I'm hoping she had a shop throw in a replacement factory radio but I doubt it. Easy repair if they threw in a radio but not the code. Harder diagnosis if this is the original radio.

What I'm hoping for in this thread is one of you mechanics might have seen this problem before and know the general cause. Since the amp didn't work, I'm assuming it's the radio itself but, as I mentioned, I'm not familiar with the interconnected Cadillac set up. I'd like to get as much info as I can before I make another move. If the car goes to the dealer it will be $600 or more regardless of cause. If I can fix it myself, it might be a quarter of that. An Ebay replacement radio is $40. Programming is probably <$100. If, on the other hand, the problem is with a "module", I have no way to diagnose and will have to pay the dealer rates or find a good audio shop that knows what they are doing.

 

[ktraver97ss]

Id call a good audio shop down there and we what they say before considering a dealer.

 

[Turbocharged400sbc]

The dealer gave me an estimate for $597 for amplifier replacement to fix the radio/chimes/Onstar problem. I asked the service writer twice how confident they were with the diagnosis and got assurances this was the problem. did you pay 100ish for 1 hour of diagnosis? if so then you have a right to be pissed...yes amps fail, seen it before...a diagnosis does not an estimate make...

I assumed that meant the mechanic had previous experience with this issue and knew the cause. Why say "amplifier" if you don't know for sure? I paid the dealer to check the car out before I bought it. If they weren't sure, they should not have made a specific diagnosis. well cause its probably been an amplifier on several other cars.....youve replaced lots of lightbulbs on cars right? so when one's out you toss in a new one....then find that it still doesnt work and start tracing down a broken wire, etc....
its hard for a customer to accept probably diagnosis's....you can tell em the oil leak could be the valvecovers, oilpan/skirt gasket, drainplug gasket...and youll get em saying which is the cheapest and which is most likely...fuck if i know...that requires labor to washdown the oil coated motor then idling/driving it to find the true leak....a used car inspection is looking for obvious things...if you had paid diagnostics ontop of the inspection you have a right to be pissed....if you woulda had them do the work there's a chance the tech woulda tossed in an amp then found it still didnt work, put the amp back on the shelf, and get into diagnostics further...at which point he would have possibly found hacked wires...soldered em together and made bank on a simple repair with an estimate like that....there's shady all over the place.
with the amp the estimate was high enough that a simple repair and your "omg it was cheaper by 100$...if its more involved then your not as pissed its an 800$ repair vs 600

If making my own repairs when I feel capable makes me a cheap fuck, so be it. I guess I should just drop the car off, let the dealer rack up a $2,000 bill and then happily pay?...thats fine, no problem there...im a cheap fuck too...but if someone told me the grass was purple id do my own inspection/diagnosis and research before just buying green dye and throwing it at it

welcome to modern cars with 6+ computers, miles and miles of wires with years of wear and tear.

btw i once had a dealer give a customer with a 98 caddy a 3000$ estimate to replace the whole body harness for 4 broken wires where the loom goes from the body into the electrical/electronics panel behind the rear seat.

yes replacing the whole body harness woulda fixed it...but a bet the tech didnt wanna spend 4 hours diagnostics time tracking down the problem with no guarantee that it'll fix the problem...with alot of customers its a no win situation that your better off walking away from before you fix those 4 wires and 2 more break nearby with resulting new issues.... and a high/rough estimate works quite well in those cases

you could have a broken, wire, bad fuse, remote start that was deleted and a ground wire snipped...or the radio could be bad

so i'll repeat it...a diagnosis does not an estimate make...

start researching wiring diagrams, checking fuses, look for signs the radio was out and remove it, check google, search for model year vehicles on either side of yours...

im just showing you the tech side of it...even at 35/hr book time i couldnt make $ on 100$ an hour diagnostic jobs most of the time...shop made $ but i didnt...i preferred gravy work...just like all techs out there....

 

[Soulonfire11]

Buy a damn aftermarket radio already. The stock shit is garbage anyways. you might have rob do some rewiring to speakers but that's easy

 

[Turbocharged400sbc]

well undoubtedly the lights are out in the radio...and any good used one you get will likely have lights out too...good news is that often radios from othe similar models bolt and plug right in so it'd be easy to test everything with a used radio.

 

[Flyn]

Yes, I did pay $100+ to have the car looked at pre purchase. I specifically asked the dealer to check the radio/chimes/Onstar.

The paperwork the dealer gave me states clearly:

CUSTOMER STATES RADIO WILL NOT COME ON
NEEDS AMPLIFIER
PROVIDED ESTIMATE

I paid $112.50 for the PPI and $56.88 for the radio diagnosis.

 

[Turbocharged400sbc]

then take it back, tell em you replaced the amplifier and it didnt fix it...they may put that 56$ towards further diagnosis if your fairly civil about it....just keep in mind if a tech aint gonna get the work they wont put forth alot of effort to make dick on just diagnostic time.

just look at tit this way...its a modern system with the chime/onstar integrated to the audio system...either pay for diagnostics and one part to be replaced, or replace a buncha stuff yourself and have a 50/50 chance at fixing it or still having to pay for diagnostics and repair.

saving $ sometimes doesnt save you $

your a gambler, go for it

 

[Flyn]

well undoubtedly the lights are out in the radio...and any good used one you get will likely have lights out too...good news is that often radios from othe similar models bolt and plug right in so it'd be easy to test everything with a used radio.

The Caddy radios have a security feature that requires a code before the radio will work. Dealers do not release the codes so you must pay a dealer to install the code. That's why Ebay radios include the vehicle VIN.

Aftermarket radios require a special harness to keep the chimes working. I believe Crutchfield sells this harness.

If the problem is the radio, I will buy a used factory unit with VIN, install it and have the dealer program the code.

If you saw this car, you'd be less likely to think it's worn wires or a bad ground. So far, every panel I have pulled has revealed equipment in very good to excellent condition. Parts look new and there's little dirt anywhere. 56,000 miles on the car.

 

[Turbocharged400sbc]

ive seen 2 year old cars that look minty with electrical problems....thanks to a mouse

i know, ive installed plenty of aftermarket radio's in place of locked oem's, usually costs less.

go ahead and pay the $ for a new radio, $ to get it unlocked, and see if you get lucky...if it doesnt fix it you can always fix it by pulling the radio fuse and sliding a new car under it.

btw cars are usually sold when odd problems develop...for all you know the prev owner already spent 1 grand on trying to fix it and gaveup n just bought a newer car.

 

[Flyn]

then take it back, tell em you replaced the amplifier and it didnt fix it...they may put that 56$ towards further diagnosis if your fairly civil about it....just keep in mind if a tech aint gonna get the work they wont put forth alot of effort to make dick on just diagnostic time.

just look at tit this way...its a modern system with the chime/onstar integrated to the audio system...either pay for diagnostics and one part to be replaced, or replace a buncha stuff yourself and have a 50/50 chance at fixing it or still having to pay for diagnostics and repair.

saving $ sometimes doesnt save you $

your a gambler, go for it

LOL! Love it.

Yes, I'm a gambler but I try to have as much information as possible before making an informed gambling decision. I like the odds to be in my favor.

I'm waiting for the seller to respond to an email. Can't do anything before Monday anyways.

My next move is probably to contact the dealer and discuss this with them. They will likely say the Ebay amp I got is bad. Supposedly the amp was tested and is guaranteed by a seller with a good rating so, who knows.

Maybe I bring my old amp along with the car to the dealer and have them test the amp? Should only take a few minutes if the amp is out? Or is it a time consuming test?

 

[Flyn]

ive seen 2 year old cars that look minty with electrical problems....thanks to a mouse

i know, ive installed plenty of aftermarket radio's in place of locked oem's, usually costs less.

go ahead and pay the $ for a new radio, $ to get it unlocked, and see if you get lucky...if it doesnt fix it you can always fix it by pulling the radio fuse and sliding a new car under it.

btw cars are usually sold when odd problems develop...for all you know the prev owner already spent 1 grand on trying to fix it and gaveup n just bought a newer car.

I have had the mouse eating the wires issue before with another car.

Supposedly only takes a code you can get from the VIN to unlock a replacement radio. One site said $40 dealer charge although that seems low to me. I doubt a dealer will give you a tissue for $40.

Problems this car had which I think caused the sale were the mirrors not working and the radio not working. You could not see vehicles in the driver's mirror at night. An old lady might think not being able to see at night is a good reason for a sale. Add no radio and I think that's more than enough for most people to decide it's time to move on. Drivetrain seems great and passed the PPI. No used car is guaranteed but I did what I could to check this one out and went into the purchase knowing its issues.

Worse comes to worst, I install an aftermarket radio. Done that plenty of times myself. If, however, I can get the system fixed by a relatively easy amp/radio replacement, that's the way I will go. If it turns out to be a wire buried somewhere, I will rewire an aftermarket set up. Done that before, too.

 

[Blood on Blood]

Go to a good car audio shop and have them install a system that you will be happy with.

 

[Flyn]

I'll be happy with the stock system and the chimes working, Dave. Not looking to install a thumping big bucks set up in this car.

 

[Flyn]

Hmmm. I went out to the Caddy to check the codes, inserted my key and got a Driver 2 Home Presets message for a second or two on the radio. That's new. Amp may have been bad after all since I never got the Driver 2 message before. Now I have to figure out if the radio is also bad or, if there's some other cause.

From reading on the web, this really seems like a locked up radio security issue. I have no experience with this.

Edit: or not. I have no LOC display.

Every time I turn the car on now, I get the Driver 2 Home Presets display for a second or two. Then, it's back to blank display.

 

[Flyn]

I ran the codes again. Happily, down to half the codes from when I bought the car.

I'm getting an IRC U1000 Current code which is a "no communication" code. Probably either bad amp, bad radio or bad wiring.

Other codes are mostly related to me disconnecting the battery.

I have one for a window sensor in the DDM and one for the driver's power seat. Guess that's to be expected after 10 years. Both window and seat work fine. I'm going to cycle the window to try to reset the sensor and I lubricated the seat tracks while I had the seats moved forward.

 

[UWISHU1]

should have bought a Buick

 

[syP]

seems like you have a lot of headaches with this car...

 

[Flyn]

You pay $4K for a ten year old $45,000 car, you're going to have issues. Important thing is what kind of issues they are. Mirrors were an easy fix. Radio is being more difficult.

Some People buy new cars and have just as many issues.

 

[syP]

I wouldn't buy a northstar anyways because.. well.. I know about cars.

Best of luck to you and your case halves!

 

[Flyn]

I know about Terminator Cobras. Best of luck to you with your weak rear end cover, underthreaded spark plug holes and prone to overheating driver's side head. :wink:

 

[Dasfinc]

Get a room, jeez