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Old 04-10-2012, 12:18 PM   #1
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Default Repair and Tuning for a 00 Civic?

A buddy of mine at work has a 00 Civic he picked up off of Craigslist. D16Y8 engine I believe. SOHC VTEC 5spd car. The car needed a good amount of work which he's done. He bought a turbo kit which he plans on putting on very soon.

Two questions..

1. He keeps getting a reoccurring code I believe about the knock sensor. IIRC he replaced the sensor but the code remains which leads me to believe a wiring issue. Obviously this is an important sensor to the engines health and even more so if he's going to run a turbo. This car had wiring issues before and he seems to have fixed most of them. But this issue remains. Thoughts? Anyone do work on Honda wiring?

2. He wants to install this turbo kit once that issue is sorte. He has injectors and basically every thing needed, and the ability to install it, but needs it tuned. Who tunes these cars? He lives in Crestwood which is basically south side of Chicago. Any place local?
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Old 04-10-2012, 12:21 PM   #2
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i would get in touch with devo2ning on here first about parts install, troubleshooting etc. they also might have a tuning solution for him.

as for actual tuning tho, one6 comes to mind for hondas.
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Old 04-10-2012, 04:31 PM   #3
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X2 on One6 for Honda tuning, but there is an immediate hurtle of the OBD2 ECU being just about completely worthless IIRC.

TYPICALLY Pre-K series motors are tuned with a OBD2 to OBD1 conversion harness going to an ECU that is Chippable (Most commonly/easily found OBD1 ECU with Vtec is the one used in the 1992-1995 Civic SI and EX *D16Z6*)

I'm not even sure if the OBD 1 motors HAVE a knock sensor honestly, so I'd imagine the sensor was more used for fuel economy more than 'engine health'. My 92 and 95 swapped civics both ran 96+ B18 motors that had knock sensors on them, but the ECU and wiring had no provisions for it.

Was this car originally a DX/CX that had a D16Y8 swapped in?

D16Y8's have fairly notoriously weak bottom ends IIRC, if he is going to boost it, he may want to snap up a D16Z6 motor for a few hundred bucks to toss into it instead of using the D16Y8 unless he is on a very tight budget.

The D16Z6's can also use Suzuki Vitara rods and pistons if you notch the block a spec IIRC (which are forged from the factory, and dished which lowers compression some) to up the boost safely.

If he wants to keep the D16Y8 in there, he probably shouldn't expect to break more than 185whp even with 6-7psi of boost. I think that motor also lacks the 'oil squirters ' in the block that the D16Z6 motor has as well, so they don't typically last super long when abused.

Back to wiring issues: The car should only have 3 grounds, and the Knock sensor wiring is probably coated in oil and road crap, as well as the grounds.
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Old 04-10-2012, 04:32 PM   #4
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Will do, Mook!

Codes are

Evap system leak p1457
knock sensor 1 circuit bank 1 p0325
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Old 04-10-2012, 04:36 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dasfinc View Post
X2 on One6 for Honda tuning, but there is an immediate hurtle of the OBD2 ECU being just about completely worthless IIRC.

TYPICALLY Pre-K series motors are tuned with a OBD2 to OBD1 conversion harness going to an ECU that is Chippable (Most commonly/easily found OBD1 ECU with Vtec is the one used in the 1992-1995 Civic SI and EX *D16Z6*)

I'm not even sure if the OBD 1 motors HAVE a knock sensor honestly, so I'd imagine the sensor was more used for fuel economy more than 'engine health'. My 92 and 95 swapped civics both ran 96+ B18 motors that had knock sensors on them, but the ECU and wiring had no provisions for it.

Was this car originally a DX/CX that had a D16Y8 swapped in?

D16Y8's have fairly notoriously weak bottom ends IIRC, if he is going to boost it, he may want to snap up a D16Z6 motor for a few hundred bucks to toss into it instead of using the D16Y8 unless he is on a very tight budget.

The D16Z6's can also use Suzuki Vitara rods and pistons if you notch the block a spec IIRC (which are forged from the factory, and dished which lowers compression some) to up the boost safely.

If he wants to keep the D16Y8 in there, he probably shouldn't expect to break more than 185whp even with 6-7psi of boost. I think that motor also lacks the 'oil squirters ' in the block that the D16Z6 motor has as well, so they don't typically last super long when abused.

Back to wiring issues: The car should only have 3 grounds, and the Knock sensor wiring is probably coated in oil and road crap, as well as the grounds.
Thanks Dan. He's doing it as a budget build and doesn't plan to run more than 6-7 psi. Im 100% not sure if the motor was swapped before it seems like it
May have been but I don't know how to tell if it's an ex or not.
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Old 04-10-2012, 04:40 PM   #6
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EX's have rear disk brakes, slightly larger front brakes IIRC, power windows, and usually a sunroof.

They were the only trim that came with the D16Y8 from the factory from 96-00.

If the car was a CX/DX there are almost always some small wiring issues if someone just tosses in the Vtec motor.
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Old 04-10-2012, 05:40 PM   #7
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He has drum brakes, a sunroof, and power windows. This car might have been frankensteined together the way it
Looks lol..
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Old 04-10-2012, 05:43 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SaturdaysGS View Post
He has drum brakes, a sunroof, and power windows. This car might have been frankensteined together the way it
Looks lol..
Sounds like a loaded LX, is it a sedan?

Stills sounds swapped without rear disks... Unless I'm way off and that doesn't apply to the 96-00 EX's
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Old 04-10-2012, 06:03 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dasfinc View Post
Sounds like a loaded LX, is it a sedan?

Stills sounds swapped without rear disks... Unless I'm way off and that doesn't apply to the 96-00 EX's
2dr. I can see a little bit where the EX faded on the rear, but with the way this car was how he picked it up (loose and worn mounts, wiring issues), that means very little.
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Old 04-10-2012, 06:50 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mook View Post
i would get in touch with devo2ning on here first about parts install, troubleshooting etc. they also might have a tuning solution for him.

as for actual tuning tho, one6 comes to mind for hondas.
please no, please god no.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dasfinc View Post
X2 on One6 for Honda tuning, but there is an immediate hurtle of the OBD2 ECU being just about completely worthless IIRC.

TYPICALLY Pre-K series motors are tuned with a OBD2 to OBD1 conversion harness going to an ECU that is Chippable (Most commonly/easily found OBD1 ECU with Vtec is the one used in the 1992-1995 Civic SI and EX *D16Z6*)

I'm not even sure if the OBD 1 motors HAVE a knock sensor honestly, so I'd imagine the sensor was more used for fuel economy more than 'engine health'. My 92 and 95 swapped civics both ran 96+ B18 motors that had knock sensors on them, but the ECU and wiring had no provisions for it.

Was this car originally a DX/CX that had a D16Y8 swapped in?

D16Y8's have fairly notoriously weak bottom ends IIRC, if he is going to boost it, he may want to snap up a D16Z6 motor for a few hundred bucks to toss into it instead of using the D16Y8 unless he is on a very tight budget.

The D16Z6's can also use Suzuki Vitara rods and pistons if you notch the block a spec IIRC (which are forged from the factory, and dished which lowers compression some) to up the boost safely.

If he wants to keep the D16Y8 in there, he probably shouldn't expect to break more than 185whp even with 6-7psi of boost. I think that motor also lacks the 'oil squirters ' in the block that the D16Z6 motor has as well, so they don't typically last super long when abused.

Back to wiring issues: The car should only have 3 grounds, and the Knock sensor wiring is probably coated in oil and road crap, as well as the grounds.
I have yet to monkey with an obd-2 car, but most folks do run a chipped obd-1 ecu (generally a P28 variant) with chrome, uberdata, hondata, ectune or what have you. You are correct that obd1 has no knock sensor. If he plans to convert to obd1 there is no need to fix that. However, if he has to do emissions with this car he will have to figure out something else. an obd1 conversion will not pass emissions.

If he really wants to get into it, D16Z6 with vitara rods and pistons is the way to do it on a SOHC. Those motors are stupid cheap, and I've heard 250-300hp is attainable...thats hearsay though.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dasfinc View Post
EX's have rear disk brakes, slightly larger front brakes IIRC, power windows, and usually a sunroof.

They were the only trim that came with the D16Y8 from the factory from 96-00.

If the car was a CX/DX there are almost always some small wiring issues if someone just tosses in the Vtec motor.
EX's in that year range did not have disk brakes.

Ill do some quick searching with those codes and see if I come across anything for you.

Oh, and ProFunction for all of your tuning needs.
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Old 04-10-2012, 06:57 PM   #11
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Evap system leak could be a loose gas cap, bad seal at the cap, evap canister, evap vent valve. I would check the gas cap and clear the ecu of codes and see if it comes back up. This is emissions related, and not needed if swapped to an OBD1 ecu.

And use this for the knock sensor diag:

http://ww2.justanswer.com/uploads/th...2_dtc_0325.pdf

edit: that states 96/98...let me dig some more
edit2: scroll down a page.
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Old 04-10-2012, 06:58 PM   #12
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What kind of horror stories have you heard of from One6?

And yea, it looks like EX's of that era didn't have rear disk, that was a 92-95 only thing, my bad. So it sounds like he has an EX, so the engine may be original.

I always wanted to try a build Z6, but just like RWD too much after sinking my teeth into them.
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Old 04-10-2012, 07:02 PM   #13
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They are great for buying parts because they have so much stuff in stock, but they don't have any one with real tuning knowledge and experience last I have heard.

EX's only had rear disc options for 92-95, drums were standard.

If the vin is EJ8, then it is a legit EX coupe. You can check vins on the engine and car to see if the engine is original.
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Old 04-10-2012, 07:20 PM   #14
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Pro function for tuning, parts, and OneSix for parts. I don't think they do tuning, but they are great guys, been dealing with them for a while. However there's like 100,000 turbo d series cars, I'm sure there are much cheaper routes. I would ask this on Honda-tech. TCG isn't really the place. There's a total of probably 5 Honda owners here. Probably a good thing too, cause there are some ignorant ass people on here.
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Old 04-10-2012, 07:26 PM   #15
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B-series swap for the win. GSR/ITR + Civic = Profit?
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Old 04-10-2012, 07:29 PM   #16
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He said cheap route. Hence a turbo d series. Most Honda owners can't afford a legit ITR swap, and most will go b18b1+turbo before they do a GSR swap.
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Old 04-10-2012, 07:38 PM   #17
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He said cheap route. Hence a turbo d series. Most Honda owners can't afford a legit ITR swap, and most will go b18b1+turbo before they do a GSR swap.
I went B18B1 twice, no regrets on that. Managed to pull it off for less than $800 the second time through. More torque than GSR or ITR, but no VTAAAAK.
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Old 04-10-2012, 07:38 PM   #18
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http://www.d-series.org

There are some badass budget builds on there.

Oh and one6

My boss bought a zc from there for a budget race car and it looked like it fell in the sea and they drug it out. Had mud in it.
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Old 04-10-2012, 07:40 PM   #19
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They're the only Honda shop that instantly pops into my mind.
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Old 04-10-2012, 07:43 PM   #20
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That's like telling a Subaru owner to go to 6star!
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Old 04-10-2012, 07:47 PM   #21
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Quote:
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I went B18B1 twice, no regrets on that. Managed to pull it off for less than $800 the second time through. More torque than GSR or ITR, but no VTAAAAK.
More tq than a Gsr by what? A Gsr motor is far superior in every single way. Arguably one of the best motors ever made. 300,000 miles. There's guys on HT road race 250k motors. Still making ~5% of their factory rated power. The d series and b1 motors are garbage. Meant for the average ricer to swap and boost. Have fun replacing shit on a constant basis.

OneSix is a great shop FYI, BMX always has something negative to say about pretty much everything.
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Old 04-10-2012, 07:52 PM   #22
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Making 5% of factory power isn't very good.
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Old 04-10-2012, 07:53 PM   #23
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Quote:
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More tq than a Gsr by what? A Gsr motor is far superior in every single way. Arguably one of the best motors ever made. 300,000 miles. There's guys on HT road race 250k motors. Still making ~5% of their factory rated power. The d series and b1 motors are garbage. Meant for the average ricer to swap and boost. Have fun replacing shit on a constant basis.

OneSix is a great shop FYI, BMX always has something negative to say about pretty much everything.
B18B1 motors hold up for 300K+ no problem as well... They also have very strong rods and can take decent boost on stock internals (10-12PSI doesn't seem to be uncommon).

They don't like to be spun to the moon, and are 'primitive' to GSR/ITR motors without question, but to call them garbage is a bit much. Never had to replace shit on either of mine and I beat the hell out of them constantly... Was my LS swapped CX hatch fast? Fuck no, but it was fun and punchy because of the powerband of the B18B1 swap

They are rated at 142/127 Vs. 170/116 give or take. (LS Vs GSR)
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Old 04-10-2012, 07:56 PM   #24
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not sure if troll....D series and B18B1 motors are far from it, they are just the more inexpensive of the bunch. I can think of 5 significantly better Honda motors than the GSR.

If you really want to have a nutswing battle over Honda motors let me show you my torque curve in the J series...
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Old 04-10-2012, 08:03 PM   #25
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B18B1 motors hold up for 300K+ no problem as well... They also have very strong rods and can take decent boost on stock internals (10-12PSI doesn't seem to be uncommon).

They don't like to be spun to the moon, and are 'primitive' to GSR/ITR motors without question, but to call them garbage is a bit much. Never had to replace shit on either of mine and I beat the hell out of them constantly... Was my LS swapped CX hatch fast? Fuck no, but it was fun and punchy because of the powerband of the B18B1 swap

They are rated at 142/127 Vs. 170/116 give or take. (LS Vs GSR)
Wow 15lbft. They're garbage, they're commuter motors, or cheap route motors. Someone looking for an to be car motor. You dont see those motors in RR cars unless theyre boosted, and those are being worked on more than driven. Same could be said about a dseries, 300,000 miles, didn't have the replace shit. See how either of those motors last at 8200rpm. Oh wait... Das your knowledge on honda motors is nothing short if junkyard build scrap. Stick to fords.
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