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Old 02-11-2009, 03:09 PM   #1
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Default USDA Urges EPA to Increase Amount of Ethanol in Gasoline

http://www.dailytech.com/USDA+Urges+...ticle14238.htm




The EPA is considering raising the amount of ethanol used in gasoline, but is meeting with the USDA and several companies to discuss the topic

The U.S. Department of Agriculture (USDA) is finally urging the Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) to consider raising the amount of ethanol that is blended with gasoline before millions of Americans purchase it at the pumps.

Current ethanol-to-gasoline blends are currently set at 10 percent, but ethanol groups have long urged for the number to be raised to 15 or 20 percent, saying it will help the U.S. ethanol industry grow during a time when producers face declining margins and an extremely competitive market.

Although the USDA and other agencies and researchers can request the EPA to raise the limit, it's up to them to persuade the EPA to try and raise the percentage to something a bit higher. Both sides have just started talking, so the exact number of a new blend hasn't been brought up yet, though it's likely both sides have a number they hope to reach.

In an effort to create the blend itself, Valero Energy offered a bid of $280 million for five ethanol plants that are operated by VeraSun, which recently filed for bankruptcy protection. If the deal becomes official, it would mark the biggest ethanol buyout the U.S. has ever seen.

Ethanol maker Archer Daniels Midland recently said around 21 percent of U.S. ethanol production capacity is sitting idle, so the topic of blending ethanol and gasoline will only likely increase in the future.

"I do think it's important for us to look for strategies to make sure the infrastructure of the ethanol industry is preserved, because it is a key component to this new energy future the president's laid out," said Tom Vilsack, former Iowa mayor and U.S. Secretary of Agriculture told Bloomberg. "We have been talking to folks at EPA, as they look at the blend-rate issue. That may be one way in the short term to create new opportunities."

Click the link at the top to read some very good comments including:

NEW! RE: No More Ethanol! By gstrickler on 2/11/09, Rating: 5

By gstrickler on 2/11/2009 2:13:32 PM , Rating: 5

Corn based ethanol is good for drinking (e.g. Bourbon), but it's a terrible fuel. In addition to the above reasons, corn requires huge amounts of water to grow and the increase in corn production for ethanol has accelerated the lowering of the ground water table in the massive Ogallala aquifer.

Corn based ethanol uses up precious farm land, uses huge amounts of water, and only produces about 30% more energy that it takes to produce (and that's considered a generous estimate, it may be closer to break even).

Stop the insanity! No subsidies for corn, corn based ethanol, or cornstarch/HFCS. Tell your congresspersons to end the subsidies on corn, end the taxes on sugar cane, and end or delay the ethanol blend requirements. That will affect the ethanol and alternative fuel markets as well as the sugar and sweetener market and food prices.

The corn growers and corn based ethanol distillers may not like it, but until they can demonstrate a viable way to make cellulosic ethanol, the only ethanol made from corn should be in liquor stores.


NEW! No More Ethanol! By TomZ on 2/11/09, Rating: 4

By TomZ on 2/11/2009 1:35:32 PM , Rating: 4

It has so many disadvantages:
- lower energy per volume (MPG)
- not lower cost, likely higher cost
- cross-impact on food costs
- no CO2 reduction, or maybe an increase

Let's stop the handout madness! Stop Ethanol use today!

and

etc...
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Old 02-11-2009, 03:17 PM   #2
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well... my car could run more boost...

+1.

but ill be getting shit gas mileage....

meh whatever.
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Old 02-11-2009, 03:19 PM   #3
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those quotes are retarded.

if anything elthanol would help our economy, all the corn is grown here, whereas the oil we use too much of isnt.

my buddies dad is a farmer, and got baaaank for his corn this year because of the rise of ethanol use... he then was able to expand his snowplowing business, and bought 3 more trucks, all with plows... all ford trucks...

i hate white collar people who don't look at the lil things.
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Old 02-11-2009, 04:25 PM   #4
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Good for him, but I don't believe in corn in gas.... It should feed people.....
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Old 02-11-2009, 04:28 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EmersonHart13 View Post
Good for him, but I don't believe in corn in gas.... It should feed people.....
We grow enough corn in this country to feed the entire world. There is plenty to go around.
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Old 02-11-2009, 04:36 PM   #6
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thats going to be good for gas mileage. And I wonder how much food prices are going to go up
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Old 02-11-2009, 04:40 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EmersonHart13 View Post
Good for him, but I don't believe in corn in gas.... It should feed people.....

why dont you "believe" in it.

haha
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Old 02-11-2009, 04:43 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by bluzohh6 View Post
thats going to be good for gas mileage. And I wonder how much food prices are going to go up
If there is more ethanol in the gasoline, if ethanol is cheaper to produce than gasoline, then the price of fuel *should* go down. The price drop would offset the MPG drop in theory. Just like E85 when gas was crazy expensive. Cheap fuel, but a drop in MPG. You might have saved some coin, but more importantly you are buying something that is grown and produced in this country.
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Old 02-11-2009, 04:47 PM   #9
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jared
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Old 02-11-2009, 04:51 PM   #10
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yeah but what do farmers use to feed animals? the cost of the feed goes up because the demand has just been raised, then its going to force farmers to raise the prices of everything else they produce, its a vicous cycle.
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Old 02-11-2009, 04:52 PM   #11
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same thing you eat which is why i see your frustration-

crack.
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Old 02-11-2009, 04:53 PM   #12
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I don't follow, either way high five to me
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Old 02-11-2009, 04:59 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by bluzohh6 View Post
I don't follow, either way high five to me

u asked what farmers feed their animals, and i said crack.

which is what you eat.

which is what will go up in price...







its not supposed to make any sense at all.
haha
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Old 02-11-2009, 05:03 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by bluzohh6 View Post
yeah but what do farmers use to feed animals? the cost of the feed goes up because the demand has just been raised, then its going to force farmers to raise the prices of everything else they produce, its a vicous cycle.
Grow more corn. Doesnt the government already pay some farmers to NOT plant crops?!? Knock that shit off and it will offset some of the demand.

More people will be needed to harvest the crops, more equipment needed to harvest the crops, new ethanol plants will need to be put up to increase production. Those all sound like some work for quite a few people.

There is always a hitch somewhere, with anything.
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Old 02-11-2009, 05:08 PM   #15
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high five to me
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Old 02-11-2009, 05:12 PM   #16
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You cant just grow more corn. You have to swap what you plant. Otherwise you will rob the soil of nutrients. This mentality killed the soil in the 1800s when cotton was the cash crop. George Washington Carver had to convince the famers in the south to plant other crops to replenish nutrients.

More corn that goes to gas, the more it will cost to eat. The price of food will jump because of this. Not just corn, but everything that has corn in it.
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Old 02-11-2009, 05:13 PM   #17
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Seems kind of greedy, they already get to be in 10% of every gallon of gas i buy. Now they want 15 to 20?
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Old 02-11-2009, 05:15 PM   #18
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Raising the price of food, gas, getting less gas to the mile, more C02. This does seem like Change.
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Old 02-11-2009, 05:16 PM   #19
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high five to barker. The fact of the matter is, many farmers switched from growing one crop to growing corn. Well this caused an increase in price for food and ethanol isn't any cheaper at the pump. Ethanol cost about 85% of 87 octane, and gets about 85% the gas mileage. Ethanol also increases in price with the price of gas because it takes so much energy just to produce ethanol. I don't see the point. In the end, the American consumer is spending more money.
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Old 02-11-2009, 05:20 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Turk View Post
high five to barker. The fact of the matter is, many farmers switched from growing one crop to growing corn. Well this caused an increase in price for food and ethanol isn't any cheaper at the pump. Ethanol cost about 85% of 87 octane, and gets about 85% the gas mileage. Ethanol also increases in price with the price of gas because it takes so much energy just to produce ethanol. I don't see the point. In the end, the American consumer is spending more money.
Well, there goes my argument! I didnt have any numbers to back anything Ive said. Just tried using some logic, but that proved to be illogical. Fuck the USDA in that case, and the EPA can have a big fuck you as well.

I guess barker can hav e a high five too.
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Old 02-11-2009, 05:24 PM   #21
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yep i just bailed off my boat.

to barker and turk. haha
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Old 02-11-2009, 05:26 PM   #22
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It sounded good until Turk threw some numbers in there. hah
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Old 02-11-2009, 05:31 PM   #23
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but Jared I think you were correct about one thing, The gov't uses tax payers money to pay farmers to not grow as much to keep demand high. So they are double fucking us, taxing us, using our tax dollars to keep prices at a level where we have to pay more. Its a big bummer when you find shit out like this. I'm going back to burying my head in the sand.
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Old 02-11-2009, 05:31 PM   #24
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You people act as if corn is the only source of ethanol they're researching many different ways including this http://www.technologyreview.com/biztech/20056 /?a=f

Step outside the box
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Old 02-11-2009, 05:33 PM   #25
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Still doesn't take away from the fact that costs rise all around when you introduce this idea.
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