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Old 07-03-2019, 10:56 AM   #1
 
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Default Don't hold your breath for a 6th gen Z/28

Looks like it's "delayed indefinitely" as well.

https://www.motor1.com/news/357733/s...-z28-canceled

A new report from Muscle Cars And Trucks, citing unnamed sources, says General Motors has canceled development of the sixth-generation Chevy Camaro Z/28. The news comes after last weekís revelation the automaker is rumored to discontinue the Camaro after 2023 with the seventh-generation Camaro program shelved for now.
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Old 07-03-2019, 11:08 AM   #2
 
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I dont understand why this doesnt have a small cube NA high revving engine to go head to head with the GT350 with.

Light as possible, Best tires and multimatic suspension available, and GM has a small cube 9k rpm capable v8 option readily available. Its the new 302 in their COPO drag car.

https://www.dragzine.com/news/stout-...jected-engine
“The engine ended up going all the way up to 9,600 RPM right out of the gate, so we knew we had something. We were looking at the lambda numbers and decided to build the full race engine and that went to 10,200 RPM with no fuel delivery issues. We knew mechanically we could make an engine buzz that high, but with the direct injection there’s nobody out there that’s within 2,000 RPM of our numbers, Rinke says
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Old 07-03-2019, 11:12 AM   #3
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I dont understand why this doesnt have a small cube NA high revving engine to go head to head with the GT350 with.
They already compete head to head with the gt350, and win in every performance aspect, with the zl1. You want them to do it with 2 cars? The gt350 isn't much to compete with..it's already barely faster than a PP2 mustang GT and it does not sell well. Nobody wants a high revving n/a engine with no torque in a domestic car.


Cancelling the z28 makes perfect sense to me. The current track-inspired camaros don't sell, so why make a model that's even more track oriented than the 1le.
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Old 07-03-2019, 11:21 AM   #4
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If GM has any brains whatsoever, and the 7th gen ends up happening, they're going to make a drag-inspired camaro that's spacious enough to fit the average overweight 'murican stoplight racer. A camaro for the masses, that competes with the hellcat, would be perfect. Too bad they already used the COPO name for a racecar nobody can afford, but maybe they can reuse it. Or bring back yenko? That'd be sick

The focus on handling and lap times will be much lower than what we see in the 6th gen
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Old 07-03-2019, 11:32 AM   #5
 
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They can barely sell what they have now. Besides, performance isn't the reason people aren't buying the car.
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Old 07-03-2019, 11:56 AM   #6
 
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They already compete head to head with the gt350, and win in every performance aspect, with the zl1. You want them to do it with 2 cars? The gt350 isn't much to compete with..it's already barely faster than a PP2 mustang GT and it does not sell well. Nobody wants a high revving n/a engine with no torque in a domestic car.


Cancelling the z28 makes perfect sense to me. The current track-inspired camaros don't sell, so why make a model that's even more track oriented than the 1le.
Even the SS 1LE can hang with the GT350 on the track.
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Old 07-03-2019, 11:56 AM   #7
 
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They already compete head to head with the gt350, and win in every performance aspect, with the zl1. You want them to do it with 2 cars? The gt350 isn't much to compete with..it's already barely faster than a PP2 mustang GT.


This makes perfect sense to me. The current track-inspired camaros don't sell, so why make a model that's even more track oriented than the 1le.
I meant more of a small cube high revving engine. Not the 6.2 LT1 in the 1LE

ZL1 is big cube supercharged engine.
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Old 07-03-2019, 11:58 AM   #8
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I meant more of a small cube high revving engine. Not the 6.2 LT1 in the 1LE

ZL1 is big cube supercharged engine.
Sooooo you want them to copy the losing platform of the gt350 and put it in to a camaro. Lol. Why..to appeal to people who donít like acceleration?
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Old 07-03-2019, 11:59 AM   #9
 
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No Id just like to see a smaller cube high revving engine that makes an easy 550/600hp and doesnt cost 75k like the last Z28.
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Old 07-03-2019, 12:04 PM   #10
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Old 07-03-2019, 12:11 PM   #11
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No Id just like to see a smaller cube high revving engine that makes an easy 550/600hp and doesnt cost 75k like the last Z28.
Because thatís so easy right.

The ONLY motor that meets those performance specs is the V10 in the current Audi R8 and Lamborghini Huracan. Those arenít $75k.
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Old 07-03-2019, 12:17 PM   #12
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Because thatís so easy right.

The ONLY motor that meets those performance specs is the V10 in the current Audi R8 and Lamborghini Huracan. Those arenít $75k.
Costly
And
Pointless (in a domestic car)

There's a reason the Z28 was so expensive...and a lot of it had to do with the n/a 7.0l under the hood
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Old 07-03-2019, 12:36 PM   #13
 
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you mean the existing LS7 from the Z06 they literally had to do ZERO R&D on and if anything cost them less because the more engines they build the less each cost in the end....

OK.
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Old 07-03-2019, 12:38 PM   #14
 
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Costly
And
Pointless (in a domestic car)

There's a reason the Z28 was so expensive...and a lot of it had to do with the multimatic DSSV suspension.
Fixed.
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Old 07-03-2019, 12:40 PM   #15
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you mean the existing LS7 from the Z06 they literally had to do ZERO R&D on and if anything cost them less because the more engines they build the less each cost in the end....

OK.
so because they had already done the R&D, the sleeved all aluminum 7.0 liter was cheap. GOT IT

Audi's been building their v10 forever....LMK what one of those costs if you want to buy it
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Old 07-03-2019, 12:56 PM   #16
 
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You do realize once the R&D process is over the more of them they make the less it cost right?

The LS7 is in more than just the Z06 is my point therefore cost per unit goes down.

Id argue the Ford Voodoo engine cost wayyyy more being FPC and ONLY found in the GT350 and GT350R per unit than a pushrod LS7 thats in a bajillion corvettes .........

Then again the longer that Ford makes the GT350 and GT350R stays in production the less that engine cost per unit in the end.

Get it? I literally dont know how else to explain this to you.
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Old 07-03-2019, 01:01 PM   #17
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You do realize once the R&D process is over the more of them they make the less it cost right?

The LS7 is in more than just the Z06 is my point therefore cost per unit goes down.

Id argue the Ford Voodoo engine cost wayyyy more being FPC and ONLY found in the GT350 and GT350R per unit than a pushrod LS7 thats in a bajillion corvettes .........

Then again the longer that Ford makes the GT350 and Gt350R stays in production the less that engine cost per unit in the end.

Get it? I literally dont know how else to explain this to you.
So why does a 5.0 crate motor cost $11k from ford? They've made a BAJILLION of them since 2011 yet I wouldn't exactly consider that a bargain

Yes economies of scale make an engine cost "less" in most cases, but that doesn't make it inexpensive. The LS7 was also hand built which means there were more variable costs than fixed costs, but whatever.

You're in here arguing that GM should build a small, high revving, n/a high HP engine that's comparable to the audi v10 in hp/liter, despite the fact that the gt350 proved that americans do not want a high revving n/a engine. Not even sure why i'm wasting time debating this with you. It's a dumb point because the supercharged 6.2 already does everything you're asking and more.
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Old 07-03-2019, 01:15 PM   #18
 
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So why does a 5.0 crate motor cost $11k from ford? They've made a BAJILLION of them since 2011 yet I wouldn't exactly consider that a bargain

Yes economies of scale make an engine cost "less" in most cases, but that doesn't make it inexpensive. The LS7 was also hand built which means there were more variable costs than fixed costs, but whatever.

You're in here arguing that GM should build a small, high revving, n/a high HP engine that's comparable to the audi v10 in hp/liter, despite the fact that the gt350 proved that americans do not want a high revving n/a engine. Not even sure why i'm wasting time debating this with you. It's a dumb point because the supercharged 6.2 already does everything you're asking and more.

1. the coyote has been around way longer than a voodoo
2. GM has a small cube engine im talking about in their COPO program therefore it already exists.
3. did yoy read the link about the copo 302 i posted above? apparently not.
4. GT350/GT350R does not use a Coyote it uses a Voodoo.

Heres another article for you. We could have had a 9k rpm Coyote but Ford decided to build the Voodoo instead.

https://www.svtperformance.com/threa...oo-v8.1166797

Try clicking and reading the link this time clearly you didnt read the 302 COPO link above........

edit again do not want a high revving NA V8? Seems to me the GT350/GT350R sales are still going strong meanwhile the big bad pushrod Camaro is on life support....
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Old 07-03-2019, 01:25 PM   #19
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1. the coyote has been around way longer than a voodoo
2. GM has a small cube engine im talking about in their COPO program therefore it already exists.
3. did yoy read the link about the copo 302 i posted above? apparently not.
4. GT350/GT350R does not use a Coyote it uses a Voodoo.

Heres another article for you. We could have had a 9k rpm Coyote but Ford decided to build the Voodoo instead.

https://www.svtperformance.com/threa...oo-v8.1166797

Try clicking and reading the link this time clearly you didnt read the 302 COPO link above........
1. I cited the coyote as a counter to your "economies of scale" argument. You stated that the ls7 should have been affordable because the R&D was already done, but the fact that a commonplace 420hp 5.0 still costs $11k counters that argument. It's been around forever, is produced in stupid high volumes, yet still costs $11k. Yes costs go down for mass-produced engines, but they're still big $$.
2. The COPO is a $90k car...and you really think because they "already developed the engine" that they could make it feasible for a regular production car? For real? Do you have any idea what it costs to build a 9k rpm engine and keep it running for more than 30,000 miles?
3. I know what engine the gt350 uses. It's small, high revving, and nobody wants it. It's too bad Ford spent so much time working on a flat-plane engine that's essentially a failed marketing gimmick. In the end all that really matters is HP, torque, cost, and longevity.
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Old 07-03-2019, 01:26 PM   #20
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Seems to me the GT350/GT350R sales are still going strong meanwhile the big bad pushrod Camaro is on life support....
They're not, there are hundreds of unsold 2018's on the market even though we're in July of 2019. Gomez himself said it's a flop in another thread.

They're already selling for $40k used with low miles
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Old 07-03-2019, 01:33 PM   #21
 
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Here But but butttttt OMG Ford makes a NA 580 hp crate engine too for under 17k

580 hp Aluminator XS

Hmmmmm I said 550/600hp NA earlier.

Geee that sure fits the bill quite nice

Its a bastard child engine with 5.2 Voodoo block, 5.2 Voodoo heads, CPC crank, and Cobra Jet intake manifold.

Its a hodgepodge of readily available parts Ford already did the R&D on.

This engine should have went in the PP2 Mustang IMO!

Ford Performance 5.2L Aluminator XS Crate Engine -- M-6007-A52XS
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Old 07-03-2019, 01:34 PM   #22
 
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They're not, there are hundreds of unsold 2018's on the market even though we're in July of 2019. Gomez himself said it's a flop in another thread.

They're already selling for $40k used with low miles
Unsold ones sure but Geee dont you think that might just might mayne kind of sort of have a whole fuck of a lot to do with the upcoming GT500 speculation, availability, ADM on the GT500, ect. ect?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?
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Old 07-03-2019, 01:38 PM   #23
 
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1. I cited the coyote as a counter to your "economies of scale" argument. You stated that the ls7 should have been affordable because the R&D was already done, but the fact that a commonplace 420hp 5.0 still costs $11k counters that argument. It's been around forever, is produced in stupid high volumes, yet still costs $11k. Yes costs go down for mass-produced engines, but they're still big $$.
2. The COPO is a $90k car...and you really think because they "already developed the engine" that they could make it feasible for a regular production car? For real? Do you have any idea what it costs to build a 9k rpm engine and keep it running for more than 30,000 miles?
3. I know what engine the gt350 uses. It's small, high revving, and nobody wants it. It's too bad Ford spent so much time working on a flat-plane engine that's essentially a failed marketing gimmick. In the end all that really matters is HP, torque, cost, and longevity.
1. Coyote hasnt been around NEARLY as long as a LS based anyrhing LOL!!

2. 90k racecar not the engine geezus

3. Lets see I wonder what would be easier/cheaper make a 9k rpm reliable engine based off the coyote or start from scratch and develop the GT350 FPC engine?
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Old 07-03-2019, 01:40 PM   #24
 
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interesting...i didn't realize the gt350 was a failed platform. Failed in the sense that they haven't sold. Seemed like a cool concept and definitely sounded amazing.
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Old 07-03-2019, 01:44 PM   #25
 
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Failed as in an opinion.... By what measure?

I see way more GT350s around than 1LEs or ZL1s thats for damn sure LOL.
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