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Old 01-14-2019, 10:31 PM   #226
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2021 Supra concept

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Old 01-14-2019, 11:02 PM   #227
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Old 01-15-2019, 01:05 PM   #228
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Originally Posted by Pressure Ratio View Post
But you are ok with it as is with the same Supra. what?
This sentence confuses me Sir
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Old 01-15-2019, 01:23 PM   #229
 
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What I mean is this...


You said you like the 2020 Supra as it is. Correct?

Then said this...

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Originally Posted by N20GT View Post
If they called this the celica and it had a $40k MSRP i'd say "nice car, solid engine, fair price, too bad they picked a name that doesn't fit the car"


So if it was called anything else, say TRD-1R, and was $40k you would be like "nice car, solid engine, fair price".

So if it had a different name and was $15K cheaper you are just like ho-hum about it. But as a Supra at $55k you are ok with it as is?


I'm confused by this. lol











But I agree, had this been a car of any other name and was $40k-$45K starting for the 6 cylinder, I think it would have a very good following. Especially from a market segment that loves & owns the BRZ but is now a little older, makes more money, and wants something more capable than a BRZ. But then again, I have a hard time thinking people would want this over a Mustang GT or Camaro SS at that price point. But I am a neanderthal that likes nose heave, overweight, v8 cars. haha
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Old 01-15-2019, 01:41 PM   #230
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it will be interesting to see how it battles out with similarly priced cars on a road course and i'll reserve my ultimate judgement on price around how that turns out.
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Old 01-15-2019, 01:49 PM   #231
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pressure Ratio View Post
What I mean is this...


You said you like the 2020 Supra as it is. Correct?

Then said this...





So if it was called anything else, say TRD-1R, and was $40k you would be like "nice car, solid engine, fair price".

So if it had a different name and was $15K cheaper you are just like ho-hum about it. But as a Supra at $55k you are ok with it as is?


I'm confused by this. lol











But I agree, had this been a car of any other name and was $40k-$45K starting for the 6 cylinder, I think it would have a very good following. Especially from a market segment that loves & owns the BRZ but is now a little older, makes more money, and wants something more capable than a BRZ. But then again, I have a hard time thinking people would want this over a Mustang GT or Camaro SS at that price point. But I am a neanderthal that likes nose heave, overweight, v8 cars. haha
The issue I have is the price and performance. Call it whatever you want, $50k for a 335hp base toyota is absurd. I like the way it looks, but it should either be faster or less expensive. The fact that they're kind of bastardizing the name by making it so underpowered compared to the competition just makes it that much worse

To add insult to injury, not only is it underpowered, but it seems very little effort went in to the drivetrain. Bolt in a 4 year old BMW setup and drop it 50hp...ok thanks. That's why I said it's "not exactly a 2jz v2".

I can't imagine the suspension is anything remarkable, but we'll see
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Old 01-15-2019, 02:53 PM   #232
 
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Old 01-15-2019, 03:13 PM   #233
 
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A 1le and pp2 are both less than 50g. What's toyotas excuse?
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Old 01-15-2019, 03:24 PM   #234
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They partnered with a luxury automaker to make a non-luxury car.
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Old 01-15-2019, 04:21 PM   #235
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Quote:
Originally Posted by N20GT View Post
The issue I have is the price and performance. Call it whatever you want, $50k for a 335hp base toyota is absurd. I like the way it looks, but it should either be faster or less expensive. The fact that they're kind of bastardizing the name by making it so underpowered compared to the competition just makes it that much worse

To add insult to injury, not only is it underpowered, but it seems very little effort went in to the drivetrain. Bolt in a 4 year old BMW setup and drop it 50hp...ok thanks. That's why I said it's "not exactly a 2jz v2".

I can't imagine the suspension is anything remarkable, but we'll see
it seems (styling aside) the primary bitch point is hp, but it is super one dimensional to judge the car simply by the hp alone, it's a sports car not a drag car. even at that, wouldn't a better comparison be 0-60, 1/4 mile, or some rolling straight value rather than everyone citing 335 hp and comparing it to hp of cars that are generally all heavier?

shouldn't we be waiting to see how this thing does lap wise against price comparable cars, before adamantly claiming it's price is so unjustified?

being disappointed about fantasizing what the name should warrant, i get that. saying the car should be x dollars cheaper or have more hp for the price, i dunna, i'll wait until i see how the thing really performs.
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Old 01-15-2019, 05:07 PM   #236
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sickmint79 View Post
it seems (styling aside) the primary bitch point is hp, but it is super one dimensional to judge the car simply by the hp alone, it's a sports car not a drag car. even at that, wouldn't a better comparison be 0-60, 1/4 mile, or some rolling straight value rather than everyone citing 335 hp and comparing it to hp of cars that are generally all heavier?

shouldn't we be waiting to see how this thing does lap wise against price comparable cars, before adamantly claiming it's price is so unjustified?

being disappointed about fantasizing what the name should warrant, i get that. saying the car should be x dollars cheaper or have more hp for the price, i dunna, i'll wait until i see how the thing really performs.
I'm definitely interested to see how it performs, but I guess since, for the price, it's lackluster in the drivetrain department (engine and trans, not just hp), i'm really not confident that it'll be able to keep up with anything else in the $50k+ price range on a road course. I'm sure the short wheelbase won't help either. As someone said a few posts up...do you really think this will compete with a 1le SS? Not a chance
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Old 01-15-2019, 06:01 PM   #237
 
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Lots of info about joint development

https://jalopnik.com/here-s-where-to...upr-1831780403
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Old 01-15-2019, 06:16 PM   #238
 
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Old 01-15-2019, 09:22 PM   #239
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I'm definitely interested to see how it performs, but I guess since, for the price, it's lackluster in the drivetrain department (engine and trans, not just hp), i'm really not confident that it'll be able to keep up with anything else in the $50k+ price range on a road course. I'm sure the short wheelbase won't help either. As someone said a few posts up...do you really think this will compete with a 1le SS? Not a chance
i enjoy a manual and shifting in the brz and trying to improve my heel toe skillz. i have a tune with auto-blip on it, i was impressed with it on the way to starbucks, but i've never used it on the track. i'm sure i'd be a bit faster with it but there really is a bit more fun doing it yourself. so i can understand missing it on one hand for sure. on the other though, should this trans really be dogged on? bmw is using it in actual racing, it can't be all that terrible...



i agree that the 1le ss will probably put the kabosh on it. probably would be a decent fight at 382 hp though.
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Old 01-16-2019, 12:01 AM   #240
 
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Can't unsee everything being misaligned

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Old 01-16-2019, 10:31 AM   #241
 
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A little Fast and the Furious livery for the new car.
(sorry not sorry)
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Old 01-16-2019, 10:33 AM   #242
 
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Quote:
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Can't unsee everything being misaligned

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i read that this was intentional. In the Mk4 supra everything is canted to sweep around the driver and this was a callback to that.
OR someone messed up and then said it was intentional.
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Old 01-16-2019, 11:21 AM   #243
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i read that this was intentional. In the Mk4 supra everything is canted to sweep around the driver and this was a callback to that.
OR someone messed up and then said it was intentional.
older bmws certainly did this, although it feels much less so today.

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Old 01-16-2019, 12:04 PM   #244
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Can't unsee everything being misaligned

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Omg. This is terrible
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Old 01-16-2019, 12:05 PM   #245
 
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The MKIV's interior was outstanding. It was no frills, totally driver oriented. Having it curved blew me away when I first sat in it.
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Old 01-16-2019, 12:15 PM   #246
 
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I cant get over how the front end just looks tossed on.





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Old 01-16-2019, 12:54 PM   #247
 
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Can we talk about the small trunk opening and limited cargo space too?










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Old 01-16-2019, 01:41 PM   #248
 
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Quote:
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Can we talk about the small trunk opening and limited cargo space too?


I'm assuming that piece of glass goes up...but I guess I could be wrong. If not, yeah...not sure how you'd fit anything in there.
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Old 01-16-2019, 02:37 PM   #249
 
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2020 Toyota Supra: Meet the competition

The 2020 Toyota Supra is here, pairing a legendary name with concept-inspired styling and German mechanicals. It's a platform-mate to the BMW Z4, but with its own flavor. Of course, its $50,920 starting price ó starting at $56,180 for the first 1,500 built ó puts it in the thick of some very competent vehicles. We examine some of the cars (and truck) the Supra will have to beat to make its way into buyers' driveways.

2019 Genesis G70 3.3T Sport - $50,495
Genesis has built a car that stands on its own four wheels, with stunning sheetmetal that grabs attention and a stonking 365-hp twin-turbo V6 that provides effortless gobs of power. With all- or rear-wheel drive and a standard 8-speed auto, itís dynamically capable. The soft, buttery quilted leather and high-quality materials help set the mood. Itís not just a great value at this price point, itís a great driverís car in its own right.

Caterham Seven 480 - apx. $51,000
The purist choice. Youíre paying the most for the least, and Caterham fans like it exactly that way. The Caterham Seven has evolved continually since the company took over from Lotus. Itís tough to think of a more visceral, raw experience for the money. Itíll make anything else on this list seem distant, disconnected, and massively overweight. The 480 has 237 hp and will crest 62 mph in 3.4 seconds.

2019 Audi S5 - $53,395
It has voluptuous styling, Audiís fantastic interior, and a powerful turbocharged V6 that makes 354 hp and 369 lb-ft of torque. Itís a great blend of comfort, understated style and speed, with a 0-60-mph time of 4.5-seconds. You can also get it as the four-door S5 Sportback for the same price.

2019 Mercedes-AMG CLA 45 - $54,025
Thereís a new CLA 45 on the way, but the existing CLA 45 still has enough attitude and performance to make a splash. Itís kind of Mercedesí bad boy, a front-drive-based screamer with a 355-horsepower turbo inline-four that scoots to 60 mph in just 4.4 seconds. Itís loud, manic, and extremely turbocharged.

2019 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray - $56,995
The C7 is getting on in years, but even all the C8 midengined ĎVette buzz shouldnít take the shine off its brilliance. This is a world-class sports car, offering an unbeatable combination of raw power and cornering prowess for this price point. Remember, the LT1 makes 460 hp, and thereís an honest-to-goodness manual transmission. The skyís the limit from the base car, but you canít really go wrong with any C7.

2019 Audi RS 3 - $57,195

Compact and shapely, itís an Audi fanís dream: 400 hp from a funky five-cylinder engine stuffed into the companyís smallest sedan. With all-wheel grip, itís properly quick. Sixty mph comes in just 3.9 seconds.

2019 Porsche 718 Cayman - $58,150
The flat-sixes are gone, replaced with a pair of turbocharged flat-fours that are competent but perhaps not as rewarding. But the carís still a jewel, a lithe, approachable, and relatively affordable entrťe into the Porsche world. Perhaps more important than the cylinder count are other improvements that make it more rewarding to drive Ė- the manualís new dual-mass flywheel, the looser stability control reins in Sport mode, the quicker steering rack. Itís a great driverís car.

2019 BMW M2 - $59,895

This is a tough point of comparison with the Supra and Z4, since itís a BMW stablemate that makes more power and is one of companyís most compelling products right now at any price. Its turbocharged inline-six makes 405 horsepower thanks to updates for the 2019 model year, itíll do 60 mph in about the same time as the Supra, and features a lot of the same hard- and software. Plus it has a pair of small rear seats for small humans or compact dogs.

2019 Dodge Challenger SRT Hellcat - $60,145
Despite being a few hundred over our self-imposed $60k limit thanks to a massive destination charge, weíre squeezing the Challenger Hellcat in. Its 707 hp supercharged Hemi is simply unapproachable at this price point. Thereís nothing more overwhelming you can buy for this much money Ė and nothing that produces more laughs.

2019 Ford Mustang Shelby GT350 - $60,235
The ultimate driverís Mustang is one of the most distinctive muscle cars ever sold. Thereís the howling Voodoo engine, a V8 with a flat-plane crank that revs to 8,250 rpm and belts out 526 hp and 429 lb-ft of torque. The GT500 is a bigger monster, but the GT350 is almost assuredly the better car on track. Itís a screamer.

2019 Jaguar F-Type Coupe 2.0T - $61,775
Itís not a natural fit in historically torque-mad Jaguar, but the 2.0T in the base F-Type has its charms. Whatís more, it has major street presence, because after all these years the F-Type is still a breathtakingly pretty car. The automatic is happiest shifting by itself, and keep your speed up for maximum enjoyment.
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Old 01-16-2019, 03:07 PM   #250
 
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I did see an article and one of the Toyota engineers said the Porsche 718 Cayman was the main car they had their sights on. Those are just over 3,000 pounds and make 300hp base and 360hp in the GTS model.

That kind of explains the frame of mind Toyota had for the car.
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