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Old 10-25-2018, 06:43 PM   #276
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Students also couldn't create a full package with autonomous driving, exceptional safety, comfort, etc.
lol wrong, they totally could. and your bar is UNGODLY low if you think just doing these constitutes an engineering marvel IMO.

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You're acting like students can just pile something higher than the tallest building, and that makes them special?
no i actually made the opposite point, that rocket sled is easy, and that students would not be able to create a never before seen much taller building to completion, let alone one you'd want to actually go into. yet you yourself could create your own rocket sled. spend enough money you can make it as comfy and safe as a tesla too.

again commercial success or how much you pay for something is not what makes it an engineering marvel. unless you are going to argue a tesla is an engineering marvel, while a quantum computer is not? who the hell would agree with that?

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They created a quality flagship product that is like nothing ever created before. Quicker than the worlds fastest super cars. Safer than most cars. Doesn't use gas to top it off.

You are effectively turning full autonomous driving, top safety ratings, etc. into "installing a comfortable seat." You're being silly.
yah quicker straight. i am downplaying those, because i don't consider them the product of being an engineering marvel, and even for the more innovative stuff, they are just iteratively leveraging innovation work created elsewhere. to you, even my cat video above is absolute magic. and i'm telling you it is absolutely not.
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Old 10-25-2018, 06:48 PM   #277
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OMG, you guys are killing me.

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Old 10-25-2018, 06:48 PM   #278
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Tesla Model S P100D: 'Technological marvel' wows critics
Tesla Model S P100D: 'Technological marvel' wows critics | The Week UK



Test driving a Tesla, an automotive marvel
Test driving a Tesla, an automotive marvel - Story | FOX 13 Tampa Bay

Tesla Model 3 Stuns German Engineers With Its Wonders
https://cleantechnica.com/2018/02/19...neers-wonders

Tesla’s Model X Falcon Wing door design is an engineering marvel
https://bgr.com/2015/10/02/tesla-mod...s-engineering
these are like, marketing flash news stories and headlines. did you even realize the last story was just about the fucking doors?? you think i'm crazy for saying you use the term engineering marvel too generously, and your proof that i'm wrong is referring to an article about the fucking doors on a model x?

i mean jesus ryan. i can't fathom which is a more impressive engineering challenge - the large hadron collider or the model x doors.

i believe my point has been made lol.
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Old 10-25-2018, 09:45 PM   #279
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these are like, marketing flash news stories and headlines. did you even realize the last story was just about the fucking doors?? you think i'm crazy for saying you use the term engineering marvel too generously, and your proof that i'm wrong is referring to an article about the fucking doors on a model x?

i mean jesus ryan. i can't fathom which is a more impressive engineering challenge - the large hadron collider or the model x doors.

i believe my point has been made lol.
I'm not an engineer nor am I a huge fan of the Model X but from everything I've heard, the doors on the X actually were a pretty substantial technological breakthrough. They actually had to design new ultrasonic sensors for them that could be placed under metal without seeing that metal. So the Model X's doors might actually be a poor example.

I also don't think those articles are as BS as you think they are either. Keep in mind that breakthroughs of any sort in the auto industry are pretty few and far between. So for people that only write about cars the bar might indeed be quite low.

I think when you look at everything that could have gone wrong and you realize that Tesla got basically everything right on the Model S (battery management, drive unit, support systems, etc) and that 6 year old cars have barely any degradation... That's a pretty big accomplishment.
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Old 10-26-2018, 07:59 AM   #280
 
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...6 year old cars have barely any degradation... That's a pretty big accomplishment.
I drove three Model S with miles on them when looking at a new 75 at the dealer last year. They all felt worse for wear as far as structural integrity and solidness (especially in the interior) were concerned. The unibody visibly flexed at slow speeds over curbs/speed bumps, the suspension felt loose, and everything inside was creaky/squeaky. Door panels, rear hatch were the worst offenders here.

Two of the three needed some new front end components the dealership mentioned they would sort out before delivery. The one that didn't clunk had the most miles, they said it had already been gone through up front.

All three had less than 50k miles. I actually wanted to drive something with more than that to see how they held up.

Maybe the Model 3 is better here? Only time will tell.
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Old 10-26-2018, 08:05 AM   #281
 
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How old were those S models? Like year wise? The older model S cars were not as solid as the new ones. The sound deadening in my new car vs a 2013-2014 model is night and day. They have made huge strides in that dept.

Also some of the older air suspension cars had a rattle or clunk up front. That was corrected with a new part fix, and is retrofittable to older cars if you complain to tesla about it.
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Old 10-26-2018, 08:16 AM   #282
 
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Also I really really wish I would have bought Tesla stock when it was in the lower 200s a few days ago. I would have made over 10,000 dollars in a matter of 72 hours.

Iím an idiot.
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Old 10-26-2018, 09:24 AM   #283
 
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Yep...the market finally getting on board with what Tesla has accomplished (an engineering marvel).

https://www.marketwatch.com/story/te...ter-2018-10-25

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Tesla Inc. stock rose 5% Thursday as Wall Street cheered the Silicon Valley car maker’s “truly historic” quarterly profit.

Tesla stock rallied more than 12% after the company’s third-quarter results, which late Wednesday showed a surprise GAAP as well as adjusted per-share profit and sales that surpassed expectations.

Perhaps more important, share gains held as Chief Executive Elon Musk and other Tesla executives hosted a conference call with analysts and said the company won’t need to tap capital markets in the near term and will continue to rein in spending. Tesla also promised a $35,000 version of the Model 3 within six months.

“Tesla’s Q3 results were very strong ... and encouragingly, management appeared to adopt a more financially focused mind-set on the earnings call than in quarters past, ” analysts at Bernstein, led by Toni Sacconaghi, said in a note Thursday.
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Old 10-26-2018, 09:33 AM   #284
 
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lol wrong, they totally could. and your bar is UNGODLY low if you think just doing these constitutes an engineering marvel IMO.



no i actually made the opposite point, that rocket sled is easy, and that students would not be able to create a never before seen much taller building to completion, let alone one you'd want to actually go into. yet you yourself could create your own rocket sled. spend enough money you can make it as comfy and safe as a tesla too.

again commercial success or how much you pay for something is not what makes it an engineering marvel. unless you are going to argue a tesla is an engineering marvel, while a quantum computer is not? who the hell would agree with that?



yah quicker straight. i am downplaying those, because i don't consider them the product of being an engineering marvel, and even for the more innovative stuff, they are just iteratively leveraging innovation work created elsewhere. to you, even my cat video above is absolute magic. and i'm telling you it is absolutely not.
Name just one car that comes even close to what Tesla is offering (has been offering for years). Mind blowing neck snapping acceleration performance, luxurious, insane ahead of their time technology options, and to top it off....doesn't use gas. Just name anything even close.
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Old 10-26-2018, 09:35 AM   #285
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@sickmint79 - If you only knew Ryan, you'd be damn near having a heart attack like I am right now laughing at this shit.
@Ryan02Stang - Dude, I'm going to be dead by the afternoon at this rate
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Old 10-26-2018, 10:00 AM   #286
 
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You guys are being trolled, lol.

Tesla's biggest innovation is their marketing and distribution. They spend no money marketing their product and go direct to consumer, that's innovative.

Now, the actual vehicle isn't an "engineering marvel" by no means. Everyone swings from Tesla's Autopilot, but there's been a few test's where GM's SuperCruise has been the clear winner when they compare autonomous systems.

I've said this before, but if I was Musk I'd be concerned with the onslaught of luxury EV's in development. Porsche, Audi, and Mercedes can easily build a 3, S, X competitor en mass with a much more luxurious interior, better quality, etc. It seems like the biggest hurdle for competitors is range, which I assume all three will advance rapidly as there's only a handful of EV battery manufacturers.
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Old 10-26-2018, 01:56 PM   #287
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The engineering of the actual motors and batteries is one thing- the concept of what a car should be and how it should work is why Tesla is so amazing. The fact that in a model S you just get in and put it in drive and go is how every car should work. No keys, no start button, literally just sit down and go. The only car with a cellphone app that isn’t a pile of shit. Sure GMs app is decent and you can kinda sorta track the location of the car, but the Tesla app just works and does real time tracking which is amazing. The fact that the navigation uses a satellite view is amazing. The fact that you download new versions of the main screen OS and you don’t need to go to the dealer to do it is a paradigm shift because other companies say “fuck the customer, they should buy a $200 map upgrade” and Tesla is saying “hey here’s some new features for your car we figured out we can do with the hardware you have- no charge buddy”. That is what makes people fanatical about Tesla. It isn’t just a car- it’s the coolest piece of technology you own.
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Old 10-26-2018, 01:59 PM   #288
 
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^This. The fact that the updates are no charge and sometimes turn on even more features is simply amazing.
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Old 10-26-2018, 02:09 PM   #289
 
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But there's nothing innovative about that "tech" in that something new was not created.

Instead they've aggregated a lot of existing technology into the user experience, which goes back to my comment above on marketing.

And I wouldn't doubt that Tesla will move to a revenue based update structure and charge a monthly fee for OTA updates in the future. Other auto manufactures are starting to do this.
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Old 10-26-2018, 02:39 PM   #290
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Nothing innovative besides they are the first to do it and are the best at it....
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Old 10-26-2018, 02:57 PM   #291
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But there's nothing innovative about that "tech" in that something new was not created.
.
That's like saying there was nothing innovative about the iPhone because nothing new was created. Touch screen phones existed already.

If you think that the only reason Tesla is successful is because of marketing I'm just not sure I can even have a rational conversation with you. Tesla is successful because literally for years now they've been doing things that staples in the auto industry said straight up could not be done.

Hell, even Mercedes came out not too long ago when asked about the truck. This is what they said: "If Tesla really delivers on this promise, weíll obviously buy two trucks ó one to take apart and one to test because if that happens, something has passed us by. But for now, the same laws of physics apply in Germany and in California"

Now some might read that as Mercedes calling Tesla out on a BS claim. On the other hand. I view it as more of an ominous tell on the part of Mercedes that they're not even close to their competition and they're basically admitting it.

For years the Roadster was called a rich person's toy. Jalopnik famously referred to the Model S as vaporware... Meaning it would never get made. It was a billionaire's fantasy. The Model 3 was never going to be cheap enough for them to make money and if it was it was going to suck and if it didn't suck Tesla couldn't make enough of them. The Gigafactory was referred to for a couple years as basically a giant scam. A shell of a building trying to make it look like Tesla was building a huge factory. Other manufacturers talk about Tesla's per KWH price on their batteries as if it's unattainable.

A couple of days ago one of Tesla's largest short sellers did an about face and said he went long on Tesla because it was becoming clear that they are years ahead of the competition.
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Old 10-26-2018, 03:02 PM   #292
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I drove three Model S with miles on them when looking at a new 75 at the dealer last year. They all felt worse for wear as far as structural integrity and solidness (especially in the interior) were concerned. The unibody visibly flexed at slow speeds over curbs/speed bumps, the suspension felt loose, and everything inside was creaky/squeaky. Door panels, rear hatch were the worst offenders here.

Two of the three needed some new front end components the dealership mentioned they would sort out before delivery. The one that didn't clunk had the most miles, they said it had already been gone through up front.

All three had less than 50k miles. I actually wanted to drive something with more than that to see how they held up.

Maybe the Model 3 is better here? Only time will tell.
That's odd. My experience has been the opposite. Typically I notice no difference between a low mile Model S and a high mile one. The early cars all had front end knocks. My 2015 has it and I don't know what it is but the other two had it as well.

My 2015 has 35,500 miles on it now and has no appreciable signs of wear whatsoever. And I treat that car like shit because it's a lease. In two years of ownership the only issue I've had is a failed door handle which I fixed myself after a Tesla service ranger dropped off the part for me.

Even my OG 2013 was amazing in terms of powertrain. It was just the stuff that Tesla didn't build that kept breaking and that's all been fixed in newer cars. Musk openly admitted to having to use lower tier suppliers because the large suppliers weren't taking Tesla seriously back in the early days.
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Old 10-26-2018, 04:28 PM   #293
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Name just one car that comes even close to what Tesla is offering (has been offering for years). Mind blowing neck snapping acceleration performance, luxurious, insane ahead of their time technology options, and to top it off....doesn't use gas. Just name anything even close.
none of this necessarily means some kind of engineering marvel has been achieved. as noted i think there's more interesting things going on in general for an f1 car or koenigsegg and i wouldn't actually refer to either as an engineering marvel nonetheless.

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@sickmint79 - If you only knew Ryan, you'd be damn near having a heart attack like I am right now laughing at this shit.
@Ryan02Stang - Dude, I'm going to be dead by the afternoon at this rate
it is obvious he is going over the top and trolling with the term, ie. stock price blah blah, but, that doesn't mean that the guy doesn't actually believe it, which i think he does.

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That's like saying there was nothing innovative about the iPhone because nothing new was created. Touch screen phones existed already.

If you think that the only reason Tesla is successful is because of marketing I'm just not sure I can even have a rational conversation with you. Tesla is successful because literally for years now they've been doing things that staples in the auto industry said straight up could not be done.
part of this is through simple planning and smart business execution and strategy. ie. sporty side car guys can accept something finnicky like the first gen roadster because it's not a daily; the mistakes are more forgivable. vs. trying to make the S first would have been foolish. the s itself set them up to try and successfully move downmarket into a more mainstream 3 etc. and i think they have had plenty of clever innovation, but plenty of clever innovation goes on every day. it's a disservice to claim every neat thing is an engineering marvel though.

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For years the Roadster was called a rich person's toy. Jalopnik famously referred to the Model S as vaporware... Meaning it would never get made. It was a billionaire's fantasy. The Model 3 was never going to be cheap enough for them to make money and if it was it was going to suck and if it didn't suck Tesla couldn't make enough of them.
well it was a rich person's toy! i don't know why someone would claim an s could never get made. and "cheap enough to make money" sounds weird - the argument i had put forward is cheap but profitable within a competitive space that is downmarket for joe 6 pack. and my claim was that anyone doing that with a full EV has a major challenge, tesla or not.
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Old 10-26-2018, 04:31 PM   #294
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FBI is now on site today with Tesla investigating their production. Not putting much hope into them finding anything or doing anything about it even if they do.
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Old 10-26-2018, 04:46 PM   #295
 
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I guess itís in regards to verify if they mislead investors regarding model 3 production? Highly doubt they will come up with anything. Seems like this is more of an attempt to damage them PR wise than lead to anything criminal.

I see tons of model 3s on the road and there were shit tons at the service center the last time I went by, so obviously they are producing them in mass numbers.
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Old 10-27-2018, 12:13 AM   #296
 
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I agree 3 deliveries have definitely ramped up. I see several on the road now daily, and they're the most common car plugged into my local supercharger.
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Old 10-27-2018, 09:03 AM   #297
 
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Got the new update last night that Elon tweeted about. My car will now automatically enter and exit the highway on its own while navigation is enabled. It will also automatically change lanes to get ready to exit etc.

Again more features than when I bought the car and still the best car you can but.

Mikek check to see if you got it. It might require AP 2.0 though

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Old 10-29-2018, 03:11 AM   #298
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I got it but my car is AP1 so I don't get those features. I don't think you get auto lane change either. They pulled it from the update at the last minute. If you have AP2.5 you should have gotten the dash cam feature that uses your front facing cameras as a dash cam.

The videos I saw of it were pretty cool though. You set your target speed and the car will overtake slower traffic on the expressway.
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Old 10-29-2018, 06:41 AM   #299
 
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I got it but my car is AP1 so I don't get those features. I don't think you get auto lane change either. They pulled it from the update at the last minute. If you have AP2.5 you should have gotten the dash cam feature that uses your front facing cameras as a dash cam.

The videos I saw of it were pretty cool though. You set your target speed and the car will overtake slower traffic on the expressway.


Auto lane change is still technically there. It just requires your input to put on the turn signal when itís needed. It comes up on my dashboard what lane it wants to be in and says to confirm this change by using the turn signal stalk.
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Old 10-29-2018, 10:51 AM   #300
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they should update it to detect left lane campers and shoot them with lasers. that would be an engineering marvel and i would pay for that package.
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