Porsche Tesla-Killer

[Flyn]

Porsche has plans for the "Mission E", an electric car with 600 hp and a 310 mile cruising range. This car will reportedly take 15 minutes to get to 80% charge which would eliminate most charging concerns. Still in concept form but intriguing to see the way the industry may be heading.

Porsche’s Tesla-fighter is real. At least, it is in very sexy concept form. This is the Mission E Concept and we’re in love.

Two electric motors similar to the ones used on the 919 Hybrid race car turning out more than 600 horsepower. Power going to all four wheels via torque vectoring system. An estimated zero to 62 mph (100 km) time of 3.5 seconds. One of the sexiest, most futuristic designs we’ve seen since the BMW i8 came out...

...The max range from the 800-volt drive system is reportedly 310 miles. Perhaps what is most exciting about this concept is the quick-charging system Porsche plans to use. The company claims the Mission E can reach an 80 percent charge, good for 250 miles of range, in just 15 minutes.

If that’s true — and my skeptical side calls it a big “if” — it’s a huge step for electric car re-charging, making it almost as fast and convenient as filling your tank with gas.

Porsche Mission E: The Tesla Killer Porsche Has To Build

Click to read more...

 

[Lord Tin Foilhat]

Starting at the low price of $199,999!

 

[99PONTIACGP]

Mike K likes this.

 

[Blood on Blood]

Very nice.

Remember the LSx, LTx and 5.0L Coyote were the only engines born from the Virgin Mary and touched by the hand of God.

These Porsche electric motors are merely inferior mortals.

 

[Stink Star]

Almost as fast as a 4 door car that already exists

 

[Gone_2022]

In for 260,000 dollar price tag

 

[Mike K]

This is as much competition for the current Tesla lineup as an M3 is competition for a Grand Prix because they both have 6 cylinders.

 

[Rent Free]

For the price tag screw it buy a C7 Z06 vette and a new Prius LOL!!!!

 

[Mr_Roboto]

The thing I'll say is that from a competitive standpoint Tesla can probably match the charging rate of the Porsche if the power infra it's connected to is stout enough (possibly a BIG if) The batteries should roughly ingest what they output charge wise at a minimum. I'm willing to call bullshit about the charging rate and here's why:

Tesla gets 250ish miles out of an 85KW battery and the Porsche is supposedly rated 1/3 more. Lets take 85KW as an arbitrary starting number and do some math. A typical home gets 240V single phase power.

85KWH/240V=354.166666667 amps for a 100% charge in an hour at 100% charging efficiency. Lets multiply this by 85% (due to them saying it charges to 85%) and then divide by .25 (because they said 15 minutes) and we will end up with:

354.166666667*.85/.25=1,204.16666667 amps required to charge the battery before any inefficiency. I'm willing to call this myth busted.

 

[Rent Free]

I doubt the charge being used is coming from 240V if its more the amps could also be cranked up and shorten the charge time.

From what I understand charging them fast isn't a problem its the heat that is created by charging a battery at a fast rate that kills them.

Either way I think there is a whole lot more to this story.

Tossing some arbitrary numbers out I don't think is enough to call bullshit yet, at least until you know the specifics of the Porsche charging system.

 

[Rent Free]

Seems to me that Porsche will use an 800 volt charging system.

Will Porsche steal Tesla's thunder with electric car? | Tampa Bay Times

"The Mission E can recharge 80 percent within 15 minutes using an 800-volt "Porsche Turbo Charging" system, closely resembling that of Tesla's Supercharger network, which has 2,895 chargers across the country."

800 volts is over 3 times that of the 240V system just incase we wanted to use some math...... :smile:

 

[Flyn]

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[Gone_2022]

Seems to me that Porsche will use an 800 volt charging system.

Will Porsche steal Tesla's thunder with electric car? | Tampa Bay Times

"The Mission E can recharge 80 percent within 15 minutes using an 800-volt "Porsche Turbo Charging" system, closely resembling that of Tesla's Supercharger network, which has 2,895 chargers across the country."

800 volts is over 3 times that of the 240V system just incase we wanted to use some math...... :smile:

One big problem is that this is all speculation by porsche. It has not been tested and they are banking that the battery technology progresses fast enough in time for this.

The cars cooling system would have to be insanely efficient. Try charging this fast in Vegas or Phoenix. The Tesla cooling system already cannot keep up when it is 115 outside, it has to ramp down the charge slightly.

 

[BrianG]

I would drive that to the ragged edge of it's 310 mile range and then masturbate to it's sexiness while it charges, so I don't give a shit if that takes 15 minutes or 15 hours.

 

[illinoisinc]

This thing is lovely!!!!!!!!

 

[Mike K]

One big problem is that this is all speculation by porsche. It has not been tested and they are banking that the battery technology progresses fast enough in time for this.

Yeah and they're forgetting who's investing the most in batteries right now too so it stands to reason that Tesla would either already have the same technology or they would be running Tesla components.

 

[Gone_2022]

Yeah and they're forgetting who's investing the most in batteries right now too so it stands to reason that Tesla would either already have the same technology or they would be running Tesla components.

My guess is they would source the batteries from Tesla. My other guess is this crazy looking Porsche will cost double what a Tesla does when it first comes out. Because its a Porsche. It will be marketed to the elite of society, but to succeed it will have to deliver a lot more than the Model S.

Since Porsche does not have any fast charger networks in place, my guess is this will start in California and take years to branch out. Due to the high cost of the car they will not place them in rural areas of the midwest and central states because the chances of someone owning this car in Kansas is low compared to Chicago or LA. Therefore rendering this car useless for long travel.

 

[Mr_Roboto]

Seems to me that Porsche will use an 800 volt charging system.

Will Porsche steal Tesla's thunder with electric car? | Tampa Bay Times

"The Mission E can recharge 80 percent within 15 minutes using an 800-volt "Porsche Turbo Charging" system, closely resembling that of Tesla's Supercharger network, which has 2,895 chargers across the country."

800 volts is over 3 times that of the 240V system just incase we wanted to use some math...... :smile:

It's still 400A@800V which is a huge power service. The entire data center I run has 400A 3 phase service, and I think you'd need something similar for this.

 

[jason05gt]

My guess is they would source the batteries from Tesla. My other guess is this crazy looking Porsche will cost double what a Tesla does when it first comes out. Because its a Porsche. It will be marketed to the elite of society, but to succeed it will have to deliver a lot more than the Model S.

Since Porsche does not have any fast charger networks in place, my guess is this will start in California and take years to branch out. Due to the high cost of the car they will not place them in rural areas of the midwest and central states because the chances of someone owning this car in Kansas is low compared to Chicago or LA. Therefore rendering this car useless for long travel.

Or they can source batteries from Panasonic which works with Tesla or a handful of other battery manufacturers (LG) or startups like this: Batteries: New lithium ion startup wants to take on Tesla - Fortune

Wireless charging sounds interesting to me.

To succeed, all it needs is the Porsche crest on the front and rear.

 

[Gone_2022]

Or they can source batteries from Panasonic which works with Tesla or a handful of other battery manufacturers (LG) or startups like this: Batteries: New lithium ion startup wants to take on Tesla - Fortune

Wireless charging sounds interesting to me.

To succeed, all it needs is the Porsche crest on the front and rear.

But if it cost anything more than the Model S or whatever Tesla has at that time that it would be competing with I dont think it would work. The Model S in its form now is no slouch of a car. I drove one, it is the best car ive ever driven. Porsche has their work cut out for them and they are already behind the ball with the "supercharging" network.

Wireless charging is already avaliable through some independant companies for the leaf and volt and I think the model S as well. Will it be standard on the Model S at some point? Probably yes in 5-7 years when its refined.

 

[jason05gt]

But if it cost anything more than the Model S or whatever Tesla has at that time that it would be competing with I dont think it would work. The Model S in its form now is no slouch of a car. I drove one, it is the best car ive ever driven. Porsche has their work cut out for them and they are already behind the ball with the "supercharging" network.

Wireless charging is already avaliable through some independant companies for the leaf and volt and I think the model S as well. Will it be standard on the Model S at some point? Probably yes in 5-7 years when its refined.

The Tesla S has bland styling and the interior is kind of a let down for a $70K car. This car looks to be more upscale based on the pics.

Porsche might be behind the ball, but they have two things that can help in playing catchup: Scale and resources. Porsche has a lot of engineering resources and capital to throw at projects like this.

 

[Rent Free]

Nailed it^^^^^ "The Volkswagen family includes VW, Audi, Skoda, SEAT, Spyker, Scania, Bugatti, Bentley, and Lamborghini. It also owns the Auto Union name."

That's a hell of a lot of companies to pool resources from to push engineering and technology development!

 

[Stink Star]

It's still 400A@800V which is a huge power service. The entire data center I run has 400A 3 phase service, and I think you'd need something similar for this.

Plus that is 800v DC so you have to factor the AC/DC conversion heat losses.


FWIW about the heat my volt makes hilarious noises when charging when it is hot outside. All sorts of pumps and fans running. The engineers seem to know what they are doing. I would love to hook up an amp hour meter before my supply cable to measure the total Kw/hr and instant rate it is charging and compare cold to hot

 

[Kaeghl]

I think porsche is making a strategic error in not using the already open sourced Tesla charge port so it can take advantage of the already 2800+ tesla charging stations.
They are too late to the game and will sell too few to warrant a build out of a new network of charging stations.

 

[Gone_2022]

I am sure eventually a 3rd party company will come out and provide fast charging stations for a minimal fee for use for everyone. Tesla will never open up their fast chargers to outsiders. Tesla owners pay a fee up front to have the supercharging ability installed on their cars and that gives them access to use them. Opening it up to others would make the chargers over crowded especially in populated areas like LA.