Electric Turbos

sickmint79

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Mar 2, 2008
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lot of stuff on brz forum for an electric supercharger.

Full throttle Electric Supercharger Build Thread - Scion FR-S Forum | Subaru BRZ Forum | Toyota 86 GT 86 Forum | AS1 Forum - FT86CLUB

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pretty decent gains really. although it doesn't sound like it held up to track use so i'll be taking a pass. am interested in the twin screw supercharger though.
 

Thirdgen89GTA

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No, as a technology it work. This isn't full boost all the time from an electric supercharger, its temporary boost for a few seconds, which is enough time for the MECHANICAL Turbocharger to take over and spin up.

The Supercaps discharge quickly, and readily charge. This is not a track use technology, it doesn't have the capacity for that. But what it does do very well is get you off the line at full boost. And by the time the system runs out of juice the regular turbo is already singing. So what happens is the system disengages and goes back to charge mode.

Its a very real, and very useful technology, at least so far as non-performance cars are concerned.
 

BrianG

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Oct 5, 2008
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Interesting technology. While I know that an electric fan motor can move a lot of CFM, I still have trouble believing that the electric supercharger explained within the article will actually produce anything near "full boost" before the traditional turbo takes over. I could see it moving the impeller at a higher speed than low RPM exhaust would, relieving the load from the engine and significantly reducing turbo lag. I'd be interested in seeing real sustained boost produced from just the electric supercharger.
 

Thirdgen89GTA

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Interesting technology. While I know that an electric fan motor can move a lot of CFM, I still have trouble believing that the electric supercharger explained within the article will actually produce anything near "full boost" before the traditional turbo takes over. I could see it moving the impeller at a higher speed than low RPM exhaust would, relieving the load from the engine and significantly reducing turbo lag. I'd be interested in seeing real sustained boost produced from just the electric supercharger.

But thats its purpose, the entire system is designed to "Torque Fill" where the mechanical turbo can't. These systems use a bypass valve and extra piping.

Nissan previously experimented with electric motors directly driving the mechanical turbo's exhaust turbine via a clutch. Which actually would make a nice compact package if you can solve the heat concerns (electric motors HATE heat). In Nissan's prototype on throttle tip in, the electric motor would engage and drive the turbo directly, and once there was sufficient exhaust energy it would disengage. I think Nissan ran into reliability issues with the clutch mechanism due to the heat of the turbine transferring via the shaft.

Such a system when designed correctly could provide the same torque as massive displacement engine without its parasitic loss or inertia. Imagine big block levels of torque from idle to redline.

But the other side is that power required does not scale linearly with weight. So a 1.0L engine requires not a lot of airflow as compared with a 6.0L engine. The size of the power system needed to drive a 6.0L V8 a lot.

I'll use my RC cars as an example. This is based on catalogs from the Speed Controllers monitoring Voltage and Amperage levels during acceleration from a stand still, to their top speeds of about 50mph.

Car#1 is a 2.5lbs. It takes about 25amps @ 11.1v to accelerate to 50mph from a stand still. 11.1*25 = 277 watts.

Car #2 is a 11lb truck. It also tops out around 50mph with 14.8v, but it takes roughly 180amps during that acceleration to do it. Thats ~2650 watts.

Car#2 is 4.4 times heavier, but uses almost 10x more energy to achieve the same top speed. In fact, it uses even more than those figures because Car#1 can out accelerate Car#2 to 50mph. Car#2 is capable of exceeding 100mph when fitted with its maximum voltage of 25.2v.
 

Thirdgen89GTA

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Shouldn't a brushless DC motor be able to spin at high enough RPM's to create real boost?

Easily, and their response is far in excess of a standard mechanical turbo. Imaging a big turbo spinning from idle to full speed in less than a second. The problem is battery capacity for extended use.

This is why the video posted works. The electric supercharger is used to supplement the mechanical turbocharger. Capacitors are much lighter than batteries, though they store less energy, they can be charged and discharged much faster.

Its a surge of power, and then the engine recharges the caps for the next use, which could take anywhere from 30 seconds to minutes.
 
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