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Old 04-16-2012, 02:52 PM   #26
 
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What should a Mustang be priced at? You can get one for low $30's right?
A stripped base car maybe. A base GT is $30,300. A premium GT is $34,995. I have not seen a 2013 GT under 35K yet. A loaded one can cost you $40+ easily.

Now add a new chassis using costly build materials and a higher end target customer I can see them inflate the window sticker a lot. Mustang sales are falling. You need to make profits and you can't sell volume so you make it up by a higher profit margin. Could get ugly for the Mustang.
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Old 04-16-2012, 02:58 PM   #27
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eh. name it something else.

Mustang name + Euro look = FAIL
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Old 04-16-2012, 02:59 PM   #28
 
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Old 04-16-2012, 03:19 PM   #29
 
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Now add a new chassis using costly build materials and a higher end target customer I can see them inflate the window sticker a lot. Mustang sales are falling. You need to make profits and you can't sell volume so you make it up by a higher profit margin. Could get ugly for the Mustang.
Mustang sales are falling due to a few things:

1. Increased competition-GM and Chrysler are building better ďmuscle carsĒ and then you have cars like the Genesis, 370Z, FR-S, BRC taking more share of the pie. Like it or not, the Camaro is a fresher design and thatís why it overtook the Mustang. The V6, GT, and GT500 are better overall performance cars by the numbers.
2. Dated Platform-Letís face it, as good as the Mustang is with the current chassis itís still going to be over a decade old by the time the next gen Mustang comes out. There is only so much Ford can do with the S197 chassis, interior, and exterior.
3. Economy-Buyer are looking for more fuel efficient vehicles. Even though the V6 Mustang gets good gas mileage, itís still a Mustang and the perception is that they arenít efficient. Ford is going to address that by taking weight out of the car and adding EcoBoost to the Mustang lineup. Aero improvements from a more curved design will help too. The S197 Mustang design is pretty poor aerodynamically.

In my opinion, Ford should take the Porsche approach and create an evolutionary Mustang. I am fine with a more modern design, but leave the styling cues that are in the Mustang DNA. The concepts above do a poor job of that. I canít see Ford moving the Mustang that far, so I am hoping that more sketches will come out next year with a better overall design direction. A lighter Mustang with IRS is long overdue, just donít make it look like a European car.
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Old 04-16-2012, 03:23 PM   #30
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Extremely ugly, Ford would be committing suicide if they bastardize the Mustang and make it look "European"... It's an AMERICAN car, come up with something original or keep it the way it is.
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Old 04-16-2012, 03:27 PM   #31
 
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Jason.

# 1 I agree with. That is not going to help Ford sell more Mustangs. lol

# 2 I am not sure effects sales too much. The average buyer does not pay attention to the underpinnings much. They know the catchy looks and HP rating that is in the commercials. I think you are giving the 'average' consumer too much credit. lol

# 3 Ford is addressing the MPG issue with the next offering. Chassis and engine. But look at the current offerings of the Eco-boost motors. They are more costly that other drivetrain variants. If that continues as well as a more expensive chassis where will the new Mustang price out at? Spending more on a car to save money at the pump is a hard sell.
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Old 04-16-2012, 03:34 PM   #32
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A stripped base car maybe. A base GT is $30,300. A premium GT is $34,995. I have not seen a 2013 GT under 35K yet. A loaded one can cost you $40+ easily.

Now add a new chassis using costly build materials and a higher end target customer I can see them inflate the window sticker a lot. Mustang sales are falling. You need to make profits and you can't sell volume so you make it up by a higher profit margin. Could get ugly for the Mustang.
Seems to me the price vs. content and performance value is still there and it's still priced very competitively compared to it's Chevy/Dodge counterparts. I agree with what Jason said as to some of the reasons Mustang sales are down, but I wouldn't exactly say it's time to jump ship and do something rash. Ford still sold ~70,000 mustangs last year vs. ~74,000 the year before. (and 66,000 in 2009). What number constitutes "volume" for somebody like Ford?

John just posted about a few cars from his dealership for sale, Brembo pkgs, one with Recaros, mid 30's before you even walking in the door to talk:

http://www.thechicagogarage.com/foru...kg-6speed.html

And I'm not sure where else you can get a 31mpg, 305 hp car that looks decent and has a fair amount of content for ? .....what does a V6 stang cost these days?
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Old 04-16-2012, 03:39 PM   #33
 
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Honestly I just feel marketing fast cars with HP to most younger kids just doesn't work as well as it used to. Maybe I am only dealing with people in the city and suburbs but most kids I meet these days couldn't care less about cars at all. Most aren't buying one at all if they don't have to.
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Old 04-16-2012, 03:42 PM   #34
 
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Jason.

# 1 I agree with. That is not going to help Ford sell more Mustangs. lol

# 2 I am not sure effects sales too much. The average buyer does not pay attention to the underpinnings much. They know the catchy looks and HP rating that is in the commercials. I think you are giving the 'average' consumer too much credit. lol

# 3 Ford is addressing the MPG issue with the next offering. Chassis and engine. But look at the current offerings of the Eco-boost motors. They are more costly that other drivetrain variants. If that continues as well as a more expensive chassis where will the new Mustang price out at? Spending more on a car to save money at the pump is a hard sell.
Yeah, Ford needs to ultimately build a better Mustang in regards to regaining the #1 spot in sales

As for #2, you bet it does. An IRS equipped Mustang would ride better and handle better and my opinion is that most drivers would be able to ďfeelĒ that. They might not be able to tell you why, but they will say itís less bouncy or more stable. Also, the overall lines of the Mustang have remained the same from 2005-2013. The styling has changed, but the shell is the same and so is the interior layout.

As for MPG and cost, I believe Fordís plan is to increase EcoBoost in their lineup to the majority of products. Adding more production will ultimately decrease costs (in theory). One thing that hurts the Mustang is perception. I get people that constantly say ďIsnít your Mustang a gas hogĒ? When it was stock, it got similar mpg numbers as my dadís 545i but no one ever stated that about the Bimmer. The perception is that these cars are inefficient, which is not the truth.
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Old 04-16-2012, 03:46 PM   #35
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That is not a mustang... Yuk
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Old 04-16-2012, 04:28 PM   #36
 
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Seems to me the price vs. content and performance value is still there and it's still priced very competitively compared to it's Chevy/Dodge counterparts. I agree with what Jason said as to some of the reasons Mustang sales are down, but I wouldn't exactly say it's time to jump ship and do something rash. Ford still sold ~70,000 mustangs last year vs. ~74,000 the year before. (and 66,000 in 2009). What number constitutes "volume" for somebody like Ford?

John just posted about a few cars from his dealership for sale, Brembo pkgs, one with Recaros, mid 30's before you even walking in the door to talk:

http://www.thechicagogarage.com/foru...kg-6speed.html

And I'm not sure where else you can get a 31mpg, 305 hp car that looks decent and has a fair amount of content for ? .....what does a V6 stang cost these days?
I am not saying the current offering is not worth it. That is why I bought one. haha They do have a lot of technology in them. And they perform very well. But at the current rate of a 5-6% price increase a year on the GT Premium you are looking at the 2014 GT premium being $38K(ish). That is before the increase due to more technology packed in it as well as more costly build materials.

And you have to cover the cost of development of a new car based over a projected sales figure. If the projected sales figure is lower than lower it will have an affect on the price. Higher sales volumes would be helpful in keeping the price down. Falling sales due to what ever are not going to help. IF that is the case.

You can say you are going to get a bunch off a sticker price but that does not seem to be the case anymore. Not like in the past. I can't imagine you would be getting 10% off of a GT. So mid/high 30's is not going to drop you down to low 30's. If you have enough birddogs saved up to do that then you are lucky. Maybe I have a hard time with the pricing when fully loaded Foxbody sell for teens and SN95 for low 20s. lol

Someone at Ford seems to have a hard on for European cars at the moment. Comparing the GT to a BMW m3 should never been the case. It is good that it has the performance like a car like that. But they are not in the same class. Now they are talking looks and styling of Aston Martin. I doubt that means looks and performance with cheap ass material and poor build quality. I assume they would be using higher end materials inside and out side of the car. Well I guess they can try and make it look high end with crap materials. But sounds like a recipe for failure. lol The Mustang did not start out as a European touring coupe and it should not be changed into one. If Ford wants one fine. Add one. But a pony car is not going to do well in a touring class. A Mustang should be a cheap(er) pony car where it started.

And the V6 Mustang sounds good. I thought it was lacking in power for 305hp. Mainly torque of course. Torque motivates the car around town. After driving one I was more interested in the Genesis coupe as far as performance goes. If you are not performance oriented than the V6 Mustang would most likely fit the bill. And I am sure it will for many people for time to come.
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Old 04-16-2012, 04:44 PM   #37
 
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Yeah, Ford needs to ultimately build a better Mustang in regards to regaining the #1 spot in sales

As for #2, you bet it does. An IRS equipped Mustang would ride better and handle better and my opinion is that most drivers would be able to ďfeelĒ that. They might not be able to tell you why, but they will say itís less bouncy or more stable. Also, the overall lines of the Mustang have remained the same from 2005-2013. The styling has changed, but the shell is the same and so is the interior layout.

As for MPG and cost, I believe Fordís plan is to increase EcoBoost in their lineup to the majority of products. Adding more production will ultimately decrease costs (in theory). One thing that hurts the Mustang is perception. I get people that constantly say ďIsnít your Mustang a gas hogĒ? When it was stock, it got similar mpg numbers as my dadís 545i but no one ever stated that about the Bimmer. The perception is that these cars are inefficient, which is not the truth.
Why has the IRS not been in the mustang since the limited 03/04 cobra? You have said it before.....cost. So again, put a IRS in the car and increase the cost along with other things. Makes no sense for them to do that.

I agree that the Eco-boost motors should reduce cost as their production numbers go up. But again, will it be cheaper than the other N/A offerings?

I agree that people are amazed when I tell them I get 18-19 mpg around town. No one expects me to say that. And I am all for a lighter car that will be more efficient.

I am not arguing the changes could make a better car. I am just arguing that these changes can also make a more expensive car.
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Old 04-16-2012, 04:49 PM   #38
 
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Originally Posted by VenomousDSG View Post
Extremely ugly, Ford would be committing suicide if they bastardize the Mustang and make it look "European"... It's an AMERICAN car, come up with something original or keep it the way it is.


I don't see Aston Martin making their cars look more "American" because they sell them here.... That's an ass backwards way of thinking if I've ever heard one....
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Old 04-16-2012, 04:53 PM   #39
 
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Why has the IRS not been in the mustang since the limited 03/04 cobra? You have said it before.....cost. So again, put a IRS in the car and increase the cost along with other things. Makes no sense for them to do that.

I agree that the Eco-boost motors should reduce cost as their production numbers go up. But again, will it be cheaper than the other N/A offerings?

I agree that people are amazed when I tell them I get 18-19 mpg around town. No one expects me to say that. And I am all for a lighter car that will be more efficient.

I am not arguing the changes could make a better car. I am just arguing that these changes can also make a more expensive car.
Ford is addressing the cost issue though by making this a global platform and using economies of scale. If Ford can sell 150,000 Mustangs GLOBALLY, the MSRP stay pretty close to the current gen.
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Old 04-16-2012, 06:23 PM   #40
 
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It looks kinda cool. But it's just a concept.


I love everything I've read and the pics of the 2013 GT500 EXCEPT It looks like a BIG car. I just hope the '14 or '15 is smaller.
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Old 04-16-2012, 07:55 PM   #41
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An IRS equipped Mustang would ride better and handle better
wat?

The stock 11+ GT will handle/perform ON PAR with the current BMW M3 for how many thousand dollars less? That says something about the car, live axle or not

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It looks kinda cool. But it's just a concept.


I love everything I've read and the pics of the 2013 GT500 EXCEPT It looks like a BIG car. I just hope the '14 or '15 is smaller.
The Mustang is the lightest car out of the "BIG 3" 's muscle cars being offered right now, weighing in at 3,602.. 200 less than the Camaro and Challenger which are both in the 3800 range. The GT500 won't be much heavier than the current GT and I think (personally) dimension wise, the Mustang is the tightest, closest, smallest "muscle car" for sale right now off showroom floors. I think it's also the best bang for the buck as well.

The Camaro would be a much better competitor if they shaved 2-300 pounds off of the car (alloy body panels and alloy sections in the unibody could accomplish this and the profit margin wouldn't be too terribly affected IMO).. the LS engines are fucking solid. However, the car is pig fat and you have better visibility out of a submarine's periscope. The Mustang honestly isn't that big. The Challenger on the other hand is fucking gigantic.
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Old 04-16-2012, 08:40 PM   #42
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wat?

The stock 11+ GT will handle/perform ON PAR with the current BMW M3 for how many thousand dollars less? That says something about the car, live axle or not
And imagine what else it would be able to take on with an IRS. Its about fucking time Ford is going to make a production IRS for it. The live axle is dead and you all know it.

Quote:
The Mustang is the lightest car out of the "BIG 3" 's muscle cars being offered right now, weighing in at 3,602.. 200 less than the Camaro and Challenger which are both in the 3800 range. The GT500 won't be much heavier than the current GT and I think (personally) dimension wise, the Mustang is the tightest, closest, smallest "muscle car" for sale right now off showroom floors. I think it's also the best bang for the buck as well.

The Camaro would be a much better competitor if they shaved 2-300 pounds off of the car (alloy body panels and alloy sections in the unibody could accomplish this and the profit margin wouldn't be too terribly affected IMO).. the LS engines are fucking solid. However, the car is pig fat and you have better visibility out of a submarine's periscope. The Mustang honestly isn't that big. The Challenger on the other hand is fucking gigantic.
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Old 04-16-2012, 08:50 PM   #43
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And imagine what else it would be able to take on with an IRS. Its about fucking time Ford is going to make a production IRS for it. The live axle is dead and you all know it.



Wait did you just agree with s00ls???? I mean I remember...

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Old 04-16-2012, 08:58 PM   #44
 
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The 13 GT500 is at least 3800 pounds. I'm too lazy to look it up now. Lol

But, I said it "Looks" Big to me. I do love the '12 5.0
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Old 04-16-2012, 09:26 PM   #45
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Wait did you just agree with s00ls???? I mean I remember...

I know, right?
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Old 04-16-2012, 10:15 PM   #46
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Originally Posted by Slow Chevy View Post
wat?

The stock 11+ GT will handle/perform ON PAR with the current BMW M3 for how many thousand dollars less? That says something about the car, live axle or not

The Mustang is the lightest car out of the "BIG 3" 's muscle cars being offered right now, weighing in at 3,602.. 200 less than the Camaro and Challenger which are both in the 3800 range. The GT500 won't be much heavier than the current GT and I think (personally) dimension wise, the Mustang is the tightest, closest, smallest "muscle car" for sale right now off showroom floors. I think it's also the best bang for the buck as well.

The Camaro would be a much better competitor if they shaved 2-300 pounds off of the car (alloy body panels and alloy sections in the unibody could accomplish this and the profit margin wouldn't be too terribly affected IMO).. the LS engines are fucking solid. However, the car is pig fat and you have better visibility out of a submarine's periscope. The Mustang honestly isn't that big. The Challenger on the other hand is fucking gigantic.
You don't realize that the body panels on the new Camaro and Challanger are already like a tin can. I have had a new Challenger fender come out of the box with a split in the back corner of the sheet metal. Our PDR guy swears at these cars because the metal it to thin to work with.
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Old 04-16-2012, 10:43 PM   #47
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Old 04-16-2012, 10:45 PM   #48
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Oh right, I forgot
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Old 04-17-2012, 07:09 AM   #49
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Why do they want to fuck up a good thing???
The mustang is a good thing?
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Old 04-17-2012, 07:33 AM   #50
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Better than the fat pig you used to own.
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