Doing my LIM gaskets tonight

[Rich]

Any advice from people that have done this already?
Things to look out for?
Problems along the way?
Anything that should be looked at while I'm there?

I'm changing the s/c coupler and oil, as well as both coolant elbows. Front valve cover gasket has already been done, so I'm changing the rear tonight as well.

I'm doing this with a bum knee (tore my MCL and ACL recently) so I probably wont finish it up tonight. Had to get it done before surgery next week....if not, it would not have been done till Jan. Oil + Coolant + 5 months of mixing = bad.

Anyone in the Glenview area that has done this before that is willing to give a gimp a hand? Will provide beer.

~Rich

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[Mike K]

Empty both the oil and coolant from the engine. Make sure you're doing an oil change as well.

 

[Rich]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Mike K @ Sep 16 2008, 01:08 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

Empty both the oil and coolant from the engine. Make sure you're doing an oil change as well.[/b]

Hey Mike,

I know about doing the oil change, and draining the coolant.

You are suggesting that I should drain the oil first, before taking anything apart? Just curious why I should do it before, as opposed to doing it after.

~Rich

PS. Pm sent regarding a PCM i purchased from you guys a few months back.

 

[J.E.T.]

Oil change would be after the job.

 

[Rich]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (J.E.T. @ Sep 16 2008, 01:48 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

Oil change would be after the job.[/b]

I know it should be after. What I think Mike was suggesting is that I drain the oil before I start, then refill when finished. I would think it would be better to drain after everything is buttoned back up on the top side. That way, any coolant that does make it into the oil will drain out with the oil.

~Rich

 

[Mike K]

Sorry Rich. I typed too quickly. Drain the coolant low enough so that it's not pouring into the valley when you remove the intake. Then afterwards, when everything is back together, drain the oil and change it and it's filter.

 

[Rich]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Mike K @ Sep 16 2008, 02:21 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

Sorry Rich. I typed too quickly. Drain the coolant low enough so that it's not pouring into the valley when you remove the intake. Then afterwards, when everything is back together, drain the oil and change it and it's filter.[/b]

OK, that makes more sense. Thats what I had intended to do, until you threw me for a loop. lol

Thanks fellas.

Nothing else to be cautious of? Seems farily straightforward.....

~Rich

 

[Silvapain]

pull the fuse for the fuel pump, and start the car and let it run until it dies. This will relieve fuel line pressure. If you are going to pull the injectors out of the LIM instead of diconnecting the fuel lines, be careful not to cut the injector O-rings when reinstalling. Be sure to have grey RTV on hand for the joints between the end gaskets and the side gaskets on the LIM. I unbolted the coolant reservoir and moved it out of the way to make it easier to put the serpentine belt back on.

The thermostat is very easy to get to with everything off, and since you'll already have the coolant drained down, you might want to replace the thermostat while you're at it. I consider thermostats a wear item, and I replace them every other year when it's time for a coolant flush.

All in all it's not difficult, just time-consuming. IIRC it took me about 6 hours to do by myself in my garage, and it was my first time doing any engine work at all on the 3800 engine.

 

[Rich]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Silvapain @ Sep 17 2008, 10:38 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

pull the fuse for the fuel pump, and start the car and let it run until it dies. This will relieve fuel line pressure. If you are going to pull the injectors out of the LIM instead of diconnecting the fuel lines, be careful not to cut the injector O-rings when reinstalling. Be sure to have grey RTV on hand for the joints between the end gaskets and the side gaskets on the LIM. I unbolted the coolant reservoir and moved it out of the way to make it easier to put the serpentine belt back on.

The thermostat is very easy to get to with everything off, and since you'll already have the coolant drained down, you might want to replace the thermostat while you're at it. I consider thermostats a wear item, and I replace them every other year when it's time for a coolant flush.

All in all it's not difficult, just time-consuming. IIRC it took me about 6 hours to do by myself in my garage, and it was my first time doing any engine work at all on the 3800 engine.[/b]

Thanks for the info.

Day one is done.......couldnt work anymore last night. The knee really started to bug me. As it sits, its all dissasembled right now.

I did buy new o-rings for the injectors.....figured if they were out, might as well re-seal them.
Also bought a new t-stat too, so that will get replaced as well.

I need to get some RTV. Any high temp RTV should work for the LIM gaskets, right? You specified grey (I have orange), so thats why I'm asking.

Also, whats the best method to remove the coolant that spilled into the valley?
I used some paper towels/rags to soak up what I could see, but I'm sure there is more in the valley.
I was thinking of draining the oil, leaving the drain plug off, and pouring a few quarts of oil into the valley allowing it to drain straight out of the bottom, hopefully taking all the excess coolant with it.

I opened up the S/C last night to change the coupler too. Should I use any RTV before bolting the S/C back together? Didnt look like there was any there originally.


On a side note, when I releived the pressure from the fuel rail, there was no pressure. I parked the car and let it sit for about 2 hours before I started to work on it. Does this sound like a leaking injector? Or is this normal?


~Rich

 

[Silvapain]

You should still have pressure in the fuel rail. There is a check valve in the pump sender unit to prevent pressure release. Does it take longer to start when it's sat for a while?

Grey is for high-torque applications, and orange is for high-temp applications. On the Permatex site, it specifically lists grey RTV is for intake manifold end seals. I'm sure there are plenty of people who have used black or blue RTV on the LIMs as well.

There was no sealant on my M90 when I pulled it apart to replace the coupling and fluid as well. I just bolted it back together when I was done without any RTV and I've had no problems whatsoever.

 

[Rich]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Silvapain @ Sep 17 2008, 02:29 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

You should still have pressure in the fuel rail. There is a check valve in the pump sender unit to prevent pressure release. Does it take longer to start when it's sat for a while?

Grey is for high-torque applications, and orange is for high-temp applications. On the Permatex site, it specifically lists grey RTV is for intake manifold end seals. I'm sure there are plenty of people who have used black or blue RTV on the LIMs as well.[/b]

I usually remote start it. It sits in the "on" position for about 3 seconds before the starter engages, so my guess is that 3 seconds is enough to pressurize the fuel system enough to start the car. Never a hesitation when it cranks either......fires right away. So, to answer your question, who knows......I'll try it without the remote start after she is back together and post back.
The reason why I thought injectors is because I had an '87 Park Ave with the Series I 3800. It had some leaking injectors, and would not hold pressure in the system for any lengthy amount of time. Very similar situation.


So for RTV, looks like I need to head out tonight to pick up some grey permatex, huh? Why would they recommend high torgue vs. high temp for the intake?

~Rich

 

[Silvapain]

Personally, I use grey for most anything other than exhaust, where I use copper. When I did my LIM gaskets, I went on the Permatex site to see if grey was sufficient or if I should go with black (for high oil contact), and the site lists only black and grey as good for intake gasket end seals, so I stayed with grey. Grey RTV can handle temps up to 500°F according to the Permatex site, which is plenty high enough. Orange is not really meant to see much oil, so it will break down quicker than black or grey.

http://www.permatex.com/products/Automotiv...sket_makers.htm

EDIT: spelling

 

[Rich]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Silvapain @ Sep 17 2008, 02:58 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

Personally, I use grey for most anything other than exhaust, where I use copper. When I did my LIM gaskets, I went on the Permatex site to see if grey was sufficient or if I should go with black (for high oil contact), and the site lists only black and grey as good for intake gasket end seals, so I stayed with grey. Grey RTV can handle temps up to 500°F according to the Permatex site, which is plenty high enough. Orange is not really meant to see much oil, so it will break down quicker than black or grey.

http://www.permatex.com/products/Automotiv...sket_makers.htm

EDIT: spelling[/b]

Perfect....thanks for the info. Much appreciated.


Any thoughts on the lack of fuel pressure remaining in the rail?

~Rich

 

[Silvapain]

A loss of fuel pressure when the car is off is either a bad FPR, bad check valve in the pump, or leaky injector(s). Leaking injectors will show up as a misfire/too rich condition if bad enough, a bad FPR will show a lean/rich condition on both banks, and a bad fuel pump check valve won't show any other signs at all. Frankly, unless you have trouble starting the car or start to see other issues I wouldn't worry about it.

 

[Sinister Drag Designs]

check your injector o-rings, replace if needed.
also check the retaining clip on the FPR. Quick easy things to eliminate those as possibilitys.
Also check your schrader valve make sure the stem is threaded in all the way.

 

[Silvapain]

A loose schraeder valve would be easy to spot - just look for and smell the fuel coming out.

 

[Rich]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Silvapain @ Sep 18 2008, 09:00 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

A loose schraeder valve would be easy to spot - just look for and smell the fuel coming out.[/b]

Schrader valve is OK. Injector o-rings were changed last night. I'm not throwing any codes related to a misfire/lean/rich condition. The only recent code was a P1133 (insufficient swithcing Bank 1 Sensor 1) for the O2. I changed the O2, and the code popped back up about 3 days later. I cleared it again and have not seen it since (been about 8 days). FPR checked out OK too.

I'm going to put a guage on the fuel rail and see what the pressure is at, and see if it bleeds off after the car is shut down. IF so, then I'll check out the check valve at the pump.


Thanks for the info, fellas.

~Rich