3800 Please help. Can't stop the knock

[DGopherGTP]

I have a 2002 GTP. I installed a Wizaired intake, 3" downpipe, High flow cat, U-bend delete, 180* tstat, zzp 1.0, and Autolite 104's. What could be causing me to still be seeing 5+ knock at full throttle? I still see knock around .5-2 at only 1/2 throttle. Am I missing something? I had thought it might be false knock, so I installed the Zzp offset poly's and that still didn't help. Any help would be great.

P.s. I'm still using the stock pulley.

On another side question... is it normal to see coolant temps over 200* with a 180* tstat?

Click to read more...

 

[thebullfrog]

Yes it is normal for the temp to still get over 200, especially in traffic. I have a drilled 180 and I've still seen it hit just over 200. As for the knock, sorry I''m no help there.

 

[Sinister Drag Designs]

I have a 2002 GTP. I installed a Wizaired intake, 3" downpipe, High flow cat, U-bend delete, 180* tstat, zzp 1.0, and Autolite 104's. What could be causing me to still be seeing 5+ knock at full throttle? I still see knock around .5-2 at only 1/2 throttle. Am I missing something? I had thought it might be false knock, so I installed the Zzp offset poly's and that still didn't help. Any help would be great.

P.s. I'm still using the stock pulley.

On another side question... is it normal to see coolant temps over 200* with a 180* tstat?
[/b]

well you might be running lean from your mods. your scanning obviously so check out your LTFT and o2s.

posting a full scan might help us get a better picture of whats happening with your car

 

[thebullfrog]

Did you flip the sway bar when you put in the DP? At least some of the knock may be false.

 

[DGopherGTP]

The sway sway bar was not flipped after the downpipe install. Hopefully some of the knock is false because I don't think Wbody Store or ZZP sell a 4.0 pulley and it would suck to have to get a intercooler just to run my car with the stock pulley. I'll have to check the clearence. I'm pretty sure it real because I ran without the Supercharger belt on for a while and I never saw knock.

In regards to the scan. I am scanning with Tech gauges but I do not have a LSM1 or a Tuner, so I can't log or post a scan. From what I can remember the o2's are in the high 800's when knocking. I can't say for sure due to the fact that once the knocking starts, I can't get my eyes off that gauge until it stops.

Would anyone be available to take a few scans?

Thanks for your help so far, hopefully we'll figure this one out.

 

[Sinister Drag Designs]

high 800s sounds pretty lean. the zzp pcm could have to do with that.
try putting your stock pcm back in, and then scan again.

 

[DGopherGTP]

ZZP has my orginal PCM so I'm kinda screwed there.

 

[thebullfrog]

Jesus, I'm seeing voltages of 790 (fuel problem somewhere) and get waay less knock than you. But yeah, you're def. lean.

 

[DGopherGTP]

At this point I have a few ideas.

1) Put several dozen "speed holes" in the hood.
2) Custom tune from ?????.
3) PEM's

I'd like to be able to eventually drop down to the 3.5 that's been sitting in my truck waiting to go on for over a year. You could say this has been an ongoing battle. At one point I was actually seeing 8+ so I've made some progress.

 

[Xtant12]

ZZP has my orginal PCM so I'm kinda screwed there.
[/b]

Thats the reason I kept mine.

As for Bullfrogs comment, he is right.. Not all KR is real.. I found this out the hard way doing the Alkey.. Shift shock adds to your levels and so does things like running lean like Sins said.. I think you just might need a little better tune.. You dont have headers do you.. That will help aswell...

 

[thebullfrog]

Are you sure about the condition of the knock sensors themselves? I mean, up to 2 KR at 1/2 throttle is a little insane.

 

[DGopherGTP]

Are you sure about the condition of the knock sensors themselves? I mean, up to 2 KR at 1/2 throttle is a little insane.
[/b]

I'm not that sure. How do I test them?

 

[thebullfrog]

Well, on a note related both our problems: I just installed my ZZP 1.0 and my KR went WAY up. Like I went from seeing around 3KR when my o2 read 790, to seeing over 5 KR with my o2 at 870ish. Since I'm now running slightly less lean and seeing a lot more knock, I wonder how much the ZZP tune tries to advance timing. When you're at 5KR what is your actual ignition timing at? I haven't had a chance to check mine yet, but I'll bet it's a lot higher than stock. I'll bet even once I get my fuel problem solved I'll still be seeing around 3 KR. Someone else will have to chime in on testing the knock sensors though.

 

[Sinister Drag Designs]

there should be a poll to see if even half of the zzp pcms come correct the first time.
go back to stock

 

[Turbocharged400sbc]

there should be a poll to see if even half of the zzp pcms come correct the first time.
go back to stock [/b]

and get a powertuner



with eric's 3.0 and SSIC we were able to tune it to no kr after a few pump failures left us scrambling to get rid of 5*kr, a tuner is almost a neccessity nowadays

 

[DGopherGTP]

Today I ran a few full throttle runs. I was only seeing up to 4.5 knock and the o2's were around 920-945. So I guessing this is a good sign. I couldn't get under the car to check clearence of the downpipe and sway bar to completely rule out the false knock.

Anyone know where I can get a custom tune? I'd be willing to pay.

 

[Xtant12]

<div class='quotemain'> there should be a poll to see if even half of the zzp pcms come correct the first time.
go back to stock [/b]

and get a powertuner



with eric's 3.0 and SSIC we were able to tune it to no kr after a few pump failures left us scrambling to get rid of 5*kr, a tuner is almost a neccessity nowadays
[/b][/quote]



I dont think you should get a Tuner...

Dont Do it...Dont Do it...Dont Do it...Dont Do it...Dont Do it...Dont Do it...Dont Do it...Dont Do it...Dont Do it...Dont Do it...Dont Do it...Dont Do it...Dont Do it...Dont Do it...Dont Do it...Dont Do it...Dont Do it...Dont Do it...Dont Do it...Dont Do it...Dont Do it...Dont Do it...Dont Do it...Dont Do it...Dont Do it...Dont Do it...Dont Do it...Dont Do it...Dont Do it...Dont Do it...Dont Do it...Dont Do it...Dont Do it...Dont Do it...Dont Do it...Dont Do it...Dont Do it...Dont Do it...Dont Do it...Dont Do it...Dont Do it...Dont Do it...Dont Do it...



If you want a custom tune I would say give HP a try..

 

[imported_PaceCarBoozer]

Today I ran a few full throttle runs. I was only seeing up to 4.5 knock and the o2's were around 920-945. So I guessing this is a good sign. I couldn't get under the car to check clearence of the downpipe and sway bar to completely rule out the false knock.

Anyone know where I can get a custom tune? I'd be willing to pay.
[/b]

I know he is busy as hell these days, but you can ask Ron Vogel. He's kinda the tuning guru in the club, but there are others that can tune as well.

 

[thebullfrog]

FWIW when I have 0kr on my new ZZP 1.0 it seems to run around 19-20 degrees timing. I thought stock was 17 max at WOT? So it is possible that the ZZP tune is too aggressive with the timing. Though after a bit of driving and the PCM learning the ZZP has done a pretty good job of reducing/ almost eliminating my KR. Till I hit 5600 RPM. Then it hits almost 6 every time. But that brings up a question. All this KR you have, is it all the way through the rev range or just at upper RPMs or what?