3800 Finally Tore into the Regal

gtphale

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Nov 9, 2008
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Well I was getting a ticking sound coming from the top of the engine. Couldn't figure out if it was the front or back so I pulled the valve covers off. Found out it was from the front and coming from cylinder nuber 1. So figure I'll pull the head and look farther into it. This is what I found.

Blown Piston
regal002.jpg


Bottom cyl 3

regal005.jpg


Bottom of cyl 1

regal004.jpg


Valves looks like valve 1 exhaust is bent

regal003.jpg


Finally the seal

regal006.jpg


So question comes down to can a slightly bent valve cause a ticking sound that you would hear in the passenger compartment while driving?????
 

Turbocharged400sbc

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i would think so that valve looks like it wasnt sealing at all what you may have been hearing is the combustion leaking into the exhaust when the plug fires



didja take a comp test or do a leakdown test?



look on the vavle for where the seat was touching if it was less than 100% contact i can bet thats the sound you would hear...
 

gtphale

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Yea there is a spot where it wasn't touching. When I first heard it I was pretty sure it was valve slap. Going to pull the back plugs and see what they look like. If good i'm going to clean this head up, drop in a new valve and see what happens.

If back looks bad i'll be sending them off for a cleaning and some work. Hoping to keep it the cheaper route.

No compression test done. Should of did it since I have the tools in the toolbox to do it.
 

Turbocharged400sbc

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Yea there is a spot where it wasn't touching. When I first heard it I was pretty sure it was valve slap. Going to pull the back plugs and see what they look like. If good i'm going to clean this head up, drop in a new valve and see what happens. [/b]
how much (% wise) of the seat was still touching/sealing?

you might want to chuck the valve into a drill and see where the valve bent whether it was at the head or at the stem, if it bent the stem it may have wallowed out the valve guide


If back looks bad i'll be sending them off for a cleaning and some work. Hoping to keep it the cheaper route.[/b]

how many miles on them? so a power wash and a good lapping and you may be fine...maybe take the time to do some pocket porting

No compression test done. Should of did it since I have the tools in the toolbox to do it. [/b]

durrr lol it's always nice to have before and after results...
 

Turbocharged400sbc

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real quick before you do anything take one of the other exhaust valves and lap it into the num1 exhaust seat and make sure the seat didnt deform from the bent valve



it sounds like the piston land may have managed to get smashed between the valve and seat on it's way out of the chamber... it's aluminum so there's not much chance that might have damaged the seat but if it was run for any period of time with the bent valve check the seat with a straight one and make sure it doesnt have a recessed area...
 

Turbocharged400sbc

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The #3 exhaust valve fit firmly and appeared to seal into #1. You could tell The #1 valve wasnt sealing while it appeared that the #3 valve did. [/b]



we're talking thousandths of an inch here...he needs to at least lap the good valve to that seat to check the contact area...if there is a thin contact ring in one spot then there is the possibility that without seatwork you can burn an exhaust valve if the weak point rear it's head at high combustion temps...
 

Turbocharged400sbc

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Guy will also do a 3 angle valve job. I don't trust myself to do the porting on the heads. Cause I know that I would fubar it. [/b]



will the seats be re-induction hardened? i dont think the oe penetration depth was that far, prob less than 10 thou



cylinder head porting isnt bad...your just being a sissy :p



dija tell the doc to throw a honeymoon stitch on yer better half? :D then the wait should be worth it...
 
I

imported_Ron Vogel

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You're damn lucky the valve head didn't snap off. I'm getting some ticking when the motor is cold now, and I know it's from the valvetrain. I have a set of heads and a new block going in, so I'm just sweating it out until everything is ready.

I'm guessing that was Nick's old car. IIRC he had some work done on the heads (including skimming them) and the valve guides weren't milled. I betcha the geometry was off enough to slam the valve into the piston after a full warm-up.
 

gtphale

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Yup Nicks old car, not sure about milling them down though. I ran about 10 miles with the ticking noise before I got home and put it down for a couple months till the garage warmed up enough and I felt like tearing into it.

I might just go and find a set of low milage heads to throw on this thing. I'm going to give him a call and see if these heads were milled down at all.

<div class='quotemain'> Guy will also do a 3 angle valve job. I don't trust myself to do the porting on the heads. Cause I know that I would fubar it. [/b]



will the seats be re-induction hardened? i dont think the oe penetration depth was that far, prob less than 10 thou



cylinder head porting isnt bad...your just being a sissy :p



dija tell the doc to throw a honeymoon stitch on yer better half? :D then the wait should be worth it...
[/b][/quote]

She had a section so no stitch required. :p And after 3 months of no sex i'm sure it will feel virgin tight once again.
 

Turbocharged400sbc

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..... I betcha the geometry was off enough to slam the valve into the piston after a full warm-up. [/b]

i dont know ron.... it looks like the valve may have bent from the ring land wedgin under the exhaust valve on it's way out of the cylinder...as for the stem seal i cant figure on how it would have that damage on the one side...

was the car cammed/rockered? enough to require the guides be cut down?

hale hopefully you get to attack, rape and pillage soon it sound like it's messing with yer head :lolsign:

off topic, hey ron you using an oe shortblock or building your own?
 

gtphale

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stage 2 cam in the car with stock rockers. Push rods are comp cams 7.05's.. Really throwing around idea's on what to do with the heads. If they have been taken down I'll need to decide what to do with them. Also throwing around the idea of just getting some low mileage heads and dropping them in with the springs and retainers. Top of the seal may have been damaged while removing spring?? Just coincidence that its cylinder 2? Top of spring fits perfectly over it.
 
I

imported_Ron Vogel

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With the shorter pushrods on milled heads should have been fine. I wonder if slack in the timing chain could've retarded the cam enough to make things hit. What kind of springs on there again?

I thought he had the XP in there, I'm not so familiar with the S2 cam.

Here's the #'s on found on both cams; actually looks like the s2 is a little bigger than the XP.
ZZP XP: 212/224 .325/.335 116 N/A
INTENSE Stage 2 Blower: 214/222 .332/.338 115 111
 

Turbocharged400sbc

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......Top of the seal may have been damaged while removing spring?? Just coincidence that its cylinder 2? Top of spring fits perfectly over it. [/b]

yes it's possible if the spring compressor compresses the retainer too far it will do that...i did that myself then i readjusted my valvespring compressor and did fine on the rest



i was looking at the pics alot closer and from the looks of things those valves have been cut, as well the seats may have been...i have yet to pull apart one of my heads and see that wide of a valve seat contact area...i hate to say it but if the seats have been cut they may already be recessed can you get me a closer pic of the valve margin and the valve seats on the head?



With the shorter pushrods on milled heads should have been fine. I wonder if slack in the timing chain could've retarded the cam enough to make things hit. What kind of springs on there again?

I thought he had the XP in there, I'm not so familiar with the S2 cam.

Here's the #'s on found on both cams; actually looks like the s2 is a little bigger than the XP.
ZZP XP: 212/224 .325/.335 116 N/A
INTENSE Stage 2 Blower: 214/222 .332/.338 115 111 [/b]



i honestly dont think thats the problem...i dont have my eyeballs on em but i dont see evidence of the piston smacking the valve



off topic, hey ron you using an oe shortblock or building your own?[/b]
OE parts, but cleaned up and coated. I'm removing any casting flash, smoothing/grinding out oil drainbacks...yadda, yadda. [/b]



you coating the oe pistons? i have a thought on too much skirt clearance on these engines escecially on those with coated aftermarket pistons that because of the horrible thrust loading experienced by the SII have most of the skirt lubricant coating worn off...on eric's engine it doesnt have even 20k miles and the skirt coating is almost completly gone expecially at the bottom of the skirt. i miced it compared to an oe piston skirt at the pin boss and half an inch from the skirt bottom and taking into account the .020 overbore the worn aftermarket piston is nearly 12 thou loose than the OE, while forged pistons expand more i wonder if when at operating temp the piston is a good fit for the bore when that coating is worn away...



drill your mains out...and relieve the bores to unshroud the valves :p



i have been looking at plugging the two valley drainback holes to keep the extra oil off the rotating assembly and force the oil to return by way of enlarged Tchain cover drain holes in the face of the block, i think that instead of my oil squirter T chain lub'r the oil returning to the pan from the front cover should provide plenty of splash lubrication of the chain and tensioner. before you say it yes i realise that the valley can hold oil but after the initial fill it shouldnt be an issue...and while sitting the oil would drain through the lifter bores to the pan, this may however be a track oriented mod...just as long as you have a full dipstick not long after running the engine it'll be fine, as with the valley full any drainback from the heads and lifter bleed would easily return to the pan even during a wot 1320 assault... i gotta go...got a date dont wait up fella's ;)
 

M@

Somebody buy this thing
Nov 26, 2007
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Just saw this thread. Looking at the head, it appears the guides might be worn out of spec. The first pic looks like the intake guide has a bit of egg shape to it, which would also cause the the ticking you describe.

Good luck getting it up and running again, have the shop check the guides for sure.

MT
 

gtphale

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Nov 9, 2008
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Aurora
130 springs on there Ron, have rollermaster timing chain on with less then 10k miles on it so chain better not have stretched. Also I would think that it would be more then one cylinder that messed up.

I have a feeling that piston popped and just happened to get into valve right away. Cause I never heard the piston in there, unfortantly I know that sound to well. So I think it went partly into the valve and wouldn't let the valve close which bent the tip. Next time valve opened piston went out exhaust. Then just heard the valve not seating correctly.

Going to rip into the rear head on Sunday and then send the heads in to be checked out and put back together. Hope all turns out for the best. These heads were supposed to be totally stock except for the springs.
 
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