3800 cam or rockers?

thesexy99GT

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Aug 9, 2008
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alright, so i'm pretty set on making some more power with my ride and the next logical step seems to be rockers or a cam, since i can't fork over the cash for exhaust yet... or rather.. i'd rather make more power than sound cooler at the moment.
so i'm torn between 2 options...
1.) zzp aluminum roller rocker/pushrod combo @ 1.84 ratio
.... 400=20 (gaskets)
and for all intensive perposes... all i'd need to do is hook up a case of beer or a little money for some install help being as i have no tools or shop in illinois.

........or.........

2.) ZZP GT2 cam
biggest problem with this is all of the shit needed to make this work right. i'd need to do springs, which in turn requires new seals, retainers, keepers, and pushrods and lifters are recommended.
now as a rough estimate, before shipping, this totals to be around 880 bucks... i don't know what i can get away with not doing, but i know eventually i will need to do it. i just would like to do the cam and maybey a tensioner and timing upgrade. but if my stock valvetrain won't take the punishment, then i'm kind of fucked.
also the issue with this is that it's a far more extensive install. i'd need more than one case of beer and probobally have to pay whoever helped me out more because this seems more like an all day job or at least half a day... and once again requiring the use of someone's shop and tools.

so in the end the real issue is this...
rockers are cheaper and easier, but give way less gains...
cam is more extensive and more expensive, but if i can get away without doing headwork then it might be feasable, if someone were willing to take the time to help out....

so i'm pretty torn here... any advice/opinions
 

thesexy99GT

Regular
Aug 9, 2008
178
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i already have a zzp pcm... i'd rather get the whole car tuned with the new cam and get it running optimal for my car as opposed to spending money buying another pcm that is tuned to work for all cars.
and i was really hoping to stay out of the gears and transmission, i don't know shit about transmissions right now and i want to stray away from professional installation, that's hella bank.
 

thesexy99GT

Regular
Aug 9, 2008
178
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wow... noticing everything i'd have to do to make this work right... this is going to have to get put off for a while... with the converter, gear ratio, cooling pan, cam, rods, timing chain, pcm work, and install prices, this is lookin like a 2k+ upgrade... i deffinantly shouldn't be spending that right now considering i'm in college, but i have some extra money layin around, so i guess we'll see how the job picks up and see if i can afford this any time soon.

any further suggestions as to what else i can do to beef up my current setup? i'd like to save up to afford the cam... but the urge to mod is still strong
 

thesexy99GT

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Aug 9, 2008
178
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yeah, cam would be the best for my aspirations anyway i suppose... and i'll have to beef up the tranny someday anyway. just means i'll have to wait a little bit more, oh well.

if i did get the cam, rods, timing set, and whatnot, would i be doing damage to any other part of my engine or transmission without doing the before mentioned mods to the tranny?
 

M@

Somebody buy this thing
Nov 26, 2007
2,871
2
There is NO need for new "rods" (I assume you mean pushrods), OR a new timing set for a GT1 cam, or even a GT2.

Springs might be wise, and a new tensioner on the timing gear, but apart from that, there is no need for anything else.

I'm running well over .560 lift on both sides of this cam, and I'm running stock pushrods, stock lifters, stock timing set with a new tensioner, 105 springs, 6400 shifts....
I see no valve float ever, and that is with a relatively "light" spring with a low spring rate.

In my years dealing with these motors, I've NEVER seen anyone break a stock timing chain, the only timing chain I've ever seen break is the supposedly indestructible JWIS chain on the rollmaster.
 

thesexy99GT

Regular
Aug 9, 2008
178
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good to know... that deff. saves me some money

springs will have to wait until i fully build up my heads, but i planned on going with a 90#.. should be enough for any amount of power i will realistically get out of this ride.
so i'm talking to zzp seeing if there is a deal we can work out with the pcm issue. i already bought one from them, if they can't work with me then i'm heavily considering buying a tuner and having a club member help me out and show me the ropes to tuning.

so far my shopping list is looking like:
gt2 cam
cam install kit (dampener included)
possible pcm, or tuner, or pay someone to hook me up with some tunage
big case of beer for install help

later on i'll front for the transmission components then i'll deff. buy a tuner then to calibrate for the new gears adn raise the rev. and shift points.

sound good so far? or am i off on something?
 

Kyle

TCG Elite Member
Dec 30, 2008
2,967
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Downers Grove
if i were you I wouldnt wait on springs, go all or nothing becuase you have no idea how long the in between time might be.

Honestly I'd say until you can go all out just go with rockers, cheaper, easier, and alot less risk of breaking something.

Also I've heard of people getter better gas mileage with them, which definetly not the case with a cam.

Also with rockers you still have alot of choice on where to go, you could then add any power adder you want and not worry, while if you did a cam you'd want to swap a different one in if you added a turbo/supercharger.

just a thought.

also if you can find someone to do a cam swap for beer let me know and next time i wont pay so much for mine.
 

thesexy99GT

Regular
Aug 9, 2008
178
0
i'm going n/a most deffinantly.. no boost for me

after recalculating everything and keeping in mind i wouldn't have to remove the cylinderhead to do it, i guess springs aren't out of the question, and of course new retainers, keepers, and seals with it

i never expected just beer to cover an install as much a pain in the ass as this one, i don't know how much i'll end up paying for install... we'll see
 

Fish

From the quiet street
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Aug 3, 2007
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I think no matter what you will have to remove the heads. You have to take the lifters out in order to get the cam out IIRC.

Rockers will definatly help the top end, however you will have to buy the rockers, then resell for less than what you paid. Plus pay for install of those as well. You can easily spend anywhere from 300-400 depending on if you buy them used and if they are rollers or modded stockers.
 

xierxior

Addict
Feb 2, 2008
834
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chicago
a n/a 3.8 has the same problem the as the chevy 5.0l they both have small/deep bores which means unless you're using a poweradder (turbo/csc/blower you'll never make alot of power.

generally if you want to make alot of horsepower n/a you need very wide bores which is why everyone loves teh 350/383/396/427 sb.

427 sb's are really nice but generally don't last very long because you have to remove ALOT of material to get a crank with that kind of stroke to fit not to mention I believe you need to bore it .70

383 has a 3.96" stroke which is less then a 427 so you only need to remove a little material and you can bore it .30/60 over and not have any problems, 383s tend to be somewhat reliable if you use a forged rotating assembly

396 I know they exist but never played with one

377 meh.. gay.. destroked 427

350 run of mill 350 average performance

305 (remember that 5.0l I told you about) complete POS theres hardly any of them making over 400hp if that

anyways point is if you want to go fast n/a you need one of the above motors and not a n/a 3.8
 

thesexy99GT

Regular
Aug 9, 2008
178
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i don't expect to make a lot of power (well... when compared to GTP's) just trying to be different with my car and not go the usual route of the l67 swap... while a worthwhile investment.. i'd rather just buy a GTP and have all of the nice options that come with it. but i like the idea of having a somwhat unique car. i understand the flaws of expecting big power gains from a naturally aspirated GP, which is why i don't expect all that much, i just love me the sound of high compression, big exhaust, and a cammed up 3800.
i know i need to remove the lifters, but that doesn't mean that you need cylinder head removal... i think springs are doable in the car, pain in the ass mind you.. but doable. i deff. see your point about doing it right away, and in reality, it's not THAT much extra to do it the right way.
 

Royalgtp

TCG Elite Member
Dec 24, 2008
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Originally posted by xierxior@Aug 14 2006, 05:00 AM
a n/a 3.8 has the same problem the as the chevy 5.0l they both have small/deep bores which means unless you're using a poweradder (turbo/csc/blower you'll never make alot of power.

generally if you want to make alot of horsepower n/a you need very wide bores which is why everyone loves teh 350/383/396/427 sb.

427 sb's are really nice but generally don't last very long because you have to remove ALOT of material to get a crank with that kind of stroke to fit not to mention I believe you need to bore it .70

383 has a 3.96" stroke which is less then a 427 so you only need to remove a little material and you can bore it .30/60 over and not have any problems, 383s tend to be somewhat reliable if you use a forged rotating assembly

396 I know they exist but never played with one

377 meh.. gay.. destroked 427

350 run of mill 350 average performance

305 (remember that 5.0l I told you about) complete POS theres hardly any of them making over 400hp if that

anyways point is if you want to go fast n/a you need one of the above motors and not a n/a 3.8
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agreed....quit dumping your money into it cause at the end of the day its still slow. being NA....

Unless you go turbo on the GT, Id dump it and at least get a GTP...or a V8
 

Fish

From the quiet street
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Aug 3, 2007
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Real Name
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People dont want to hear the "truth". They asked a question and you gave an answer that was unnessesary. I should have said to sell your BT/TK IC since it was a POS compared to the ZZP S2 or WBS. How would that make you feel?

Or if you wanted to go "Fast" you should never have bought an LS1 since there were so many better cars and engines. :rolleyes: B)
 
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