3800 The TOGS saga continues...

[jk99gtp]

I am starting to lose all hope on getting my TOGS installed successfully...

And I am starting to doubt that it is an actual exhaust leak, but just the way the TOGS sound....

This is what happens:

1) Start car, car is cold, car ticks alittle (Ticks in the front/back area). Car goes into closed loop and the ticking stops...

2) If I rev the motor quickly, I can hear a small tick. But if I rev the motor and continue to rev it, the ticking goes away

I have loosened everything but the rear header twice now, and reassembeled everything. No go...

I have applied the copper RTV like its candy on the donuts. No go...

I have replaced the front manifold gasket (Thought it was bad). No go...

This sucks

Click to read more...

 

[sgtp]

do you hae arp head studs? My brother was telling me they were interfering with his togs because they were not screwed into the block deep enough....

 

[jk99gtp]

nope, everything is stock as can be...

Too bad I won't be able to make it to the mod day..

oh well...

 

[xierxior]

any sort of ticking is an exhaust leak or injectors making noise.. I had headers on my transam 383/iron heads I have to replace the gaskits because they keept leaking I replaced the gaskits and torqued the shit out of the bolts then retorqued them the next day.. I never installed headers on a 3800 tho..

are you sure the bolts/studs arnt backing out?

put your hand very close to the top of the headers while the motor is running be very careful for the obveus reason :lolsign: if they're leakng you'll feel heat puffing againts your finger..

just a few things to try

 

[syP]

spray brake cleaner around it as well... if the RPM's raise then you got a leak as well.

 

[jk99gtp]

Thanks guys for the replies,

Well I can definitely tell that its leaking again, the car goes into dangerous boost levels just cruising on the expressway when I barely touch the gas, and overall the car runs really crappy. It looks like I am just going to have to take everything apart one more time and then re-assemable...

 

[SaturdaysGS]

hopefully they'll magically go back together like nothing was ever wrong, those are the TOGS from hell

 

[jk99gtp]

Tell me about it, there is apart of me that wishes I just stayed with my ZZP ported manifolds...

 

[DaytonaPrixMI]

Originally posted by SaturdaysGS@May 16 2005, 01:54 AM
hopefully they'll magically go back together like nothing was ever wrong, those are the TOGS from hell

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I think I got him beat on the TOGs from hell with my 6 hour install and still doesn't fit right. But hey if your TOGs don't end up getting fixed or fitting properly just send Jon from TOG an email and he will take care of you. I have another set just sitting here till our local mod day here in MI to swap mine out. Good luck!

 

[iliveonnitro]

Originally posted by syP@May 15 2005, 11:02 PM
spray brake cleaner around it as well... if the RPM's raise then you got a leak as well.

[snapback]83922[/snapback]​

Brake clean on the headers to raise the engine RPM if there's a leak? He's leaking from the exhaust, not the intake. Spray brake clean on the headers and your car might ignite on fire...

as for this:

Well I can definitely tell that its leaking again, the car goes into dangerous boost levels just cruising on the expressway when I barely touch the gas, and overall the car runs really crappy.

That doesn't sound like an exhaust leak problem at all.

Am I in the wrong thread or something?

 

[DaytonaPrixMI]

Originally posted by iliveonnitro@May 17 2005, 12:24 PM

Well I can definitely tell that its leaking again, the car goes into dangerous boost levels just cruising on the expressway when I barely touch the gas, and overall the car runs really crappy.

That doesn't sound like an exhaust leak problem at all.

Am I in the wrong thread or something?

[snapback]84134[/snapback]​

Wow I totally missed that post, yeah that doesn't sound like an exhaust leak at all, you might have something else going on besides those headers

 

[jk99gtp]

Originally posted by iliveonnitro@May 17 2005, 11:24 AM
That doesn't sound like an exhaust leak problem at all.

Am I in the wrong thread or something?

[snapback]84134[/snapback]​

I forgot to mention that it boosts like this only in overdrive, with the car lugging in the low RPMS. I can see as much as 5lbs depending on how much throttle I give the car, pretty unsafe when its only trying to achieve a 14.7:1 AFR.

If I downshift, the car stays in vaccum like normal...

Once I noticed it was acting like this, I pretty much stayed off the gas or if I needed some extra power I would make sure the car would downshift to 3rd....

I am thinking to be extra safe of removing the SC belt until I can get the leaks fixed...

I run a 3" pulley daily, just to give you an idea on why its boosting too easily...

 

[DaytonaPrixMI]

It will do that in overdrive, if you just take your foot off the gas for a minute and then give it some gas again it won't be in overdrive anymore. Overdrive only stays on when you apply a pretty constant amount of gas to it at a steady speed. My car does it too, its normal

 

[jk99gtp]

Thanks Daytona for the reply.

To hopefully prevent popping a piston under that scenario, I went ahead and lowered the TPS percentage as to when PE kicks in using da ole Powrtuner...

I found out my EGR was thrashed, and that was the cause of the leak in the rear. I have some small ticking in the front, so I tightened the bolts down on the front header and it quieted down alittle, but I can still hear it abit. So not sure... Car seems to run way better now, thats for sure..

 

[sweetness]

Originally posted by DaytonaPrixMI@May 20 2005, 10:22 AM
It will do that in overdrive, if you just take your foot off the gas for a minute and then give it some gas again it won't be in overdrive anymore. Overdrive only stays on when you apply a pretty constant amount of gas to it at a steady speed. My car does it too, its normal

[snapback]84706[/snapback]​

Overdrive is fourth gear, what you are experiencing isnt fourth gear, but the torque converter lockup. If thats what we are really talking about, ok, but the terminology was wrong.



As for the leak causing the boost issues. you have something else going on. When I had my SS headers installed the O2 bung on the DP wasnt closed up when i installed them (stupid me) and it leaked like a bitch. this didnt cause any boost issues, just a lot of KR.


If you are boosting at low ROMs like that I would look at your bypass valve. There is probably an issue with the bypass valve not getting an appropriate vacuum signal in 4th gear and hence closing itself up and allowing boost to build. This could be a vacuum leak in the tubing, but my guess is that the leak is somewhere else on the intake track. When you are cruising there is a decent amount of unmetered air entering the intake that is changing the vacuum in the intake istelf. Ths would mean that the bypass valve would think you were under a higher load than you actually wre, and would close itself inappropriately causing the boost to build to match the load it thinks you are under.


A header leak would do a few things, but not what you are discribing. Unnatural knock retard, lean fuel mixtures, or misreading O2 sensors would be caused by an exhaust leak. Boost in low rpm, high gear, low load situation is probably a bypass valve problem.


BC

 

[jk99gtp]

Thanks Sweetness.

Actually I think you are dead on in regards to the bypass valve. Awhile back, when I had the 3.4" pulley I did the bypass mod, where you lower the bypass valve to allow boost to come in quicker. Alot of people on the PT forums said this could have been my issue also...

I had this problem also when I had the ported manifolds (Usually would be around 2-3psi), just not as worse as when I swapped 'em out for the headers. Perhaps it got worse because I'm flowing better? Not sure...

Today after changing the oil, and swapping out my plugs/wires I raised the boost bypass valve, and will see if it affects anything. I did check all vaccum lines and all seem to be ok, I will double check again if raising the bypass doesn't fix the problem.

Thanks guys!!

Joel

 

[sweetness]

If you did the bypass mod that is almost certainly what is causing you issues. Then to add in the TOGs, with their ability to flow that much better, and i can see hwo you could be boosting 5 psi at crusing. If you fix that and the issue doesnt go away i would bet that you have an intake leak somewhere. But the bypass is probably exactly what you are looking at.


BC