3800 Thoughts on KR improvements

[98 TGP TOY]

Ok guys so I am getting a little frustrated with knock....that I feel I shouldnt have. Im tired of my car being slower than it should be :angry: . But anyways...on my nightly cruise around the boards and vendors i came across the ZZP tech articles. I read these many moons ago and thought I would give the "Mystery KR" article a read.

So it seems that some people have knock problems do to excess head gasket material. This excess will glow read and create a hot spot in the cylinder. The excess can also affect air travel into the heads.

The other problem could be unbalanced and unclean injectors. A couple months ago i replaced my injectors with some 20,000 mile injectors I got off a junkyard box. Doing this swap, seemed to lower my IPW, because my other injectors had 90,000 miles.


So I guess I am looking for opinions on this information. Though I am not big on going to the head gaskets without other modifications, like heads, valvetrain, cam, rockers, I wont be able to afford doing anything additional. The injectors would not be a big deal at all. They will be coming out in a month or two anyways (when i change the upper manifold).

I remember a while ago at a meeting a bunch of you guys getting your injectors cleaned and flowed. Who did this? How much did it cost?

Thanx for any help you can give.

Click to read more...

 

[Mike K]

Originally posted by 98 TGP TOY@Nov 16 2004, 12:05 AM
Ok guys so I am getting a little frustrated with knock....that I feel I shouldnt have.  Im tired of my car being slower than it should be :angry: .  But anyways...on my nightly cruise around the boards and vendors i came across the ZZP tech articles.  I read these many moons ago and thought I would give the "Mystery KR" article a read. 

So it seems that some people have knock problems do to excess head gasket material.  This excess will glow read and create a hot spot in the cylinder.  The excess can also affect air travel into the heads.

The other problem could be unbalanced and unclean injectors.  A couple months ago i replaced my injectors with some 20,000 mile injectors I got off a junkyard box.  Doing this swap, seemed to lower my IPW, because my other injectors had 90,000 miles. 


So I guess I am looking for opinions on this information.  Though I am not big on going to the head gaskets without other modifications, like heads, valvetrain, cam, rockers, I wont be able to afford doing anything additional.  The injectors would not be a big deal at all.  They will be coming out in a month or two anyways (when i change the upper manifold). 

I remember a while ago at a meeting a bunch of you guys getting your injectors cleaned and flowed.  Who did this?  How much did it cost? 

Thanx for any help you can give.

[snapback]60446[/snapback]​

Mike, can you get us a complete scan from 0 - 100 mph or so. I would like to see a scan with the following:

RPM, TPS (Voltage), 02L, IPW1, MAFF, KR, IGN, LTFT, STFT, MPH, and B (boost)

I'm sure we can figure this out if we see a scan. Also, what are the exact mods on the car aside for the turbo kit? It seems you should be running a lot stronger than you are.

 

[BumpinGTP]

Justin at Casper's cleaned and balanced them, i forget the price though

 

[syP]

intercooler?

 

[imported_Ron Vogel]

Screw the IC; if I were to do it again, water/alky injection would've been the route I took. Don't get me wrong, IC works nice; but alky is essentially more effective and cheaper.

Anyway, go after electrical first, then look for mechanical noises, and isolate things you may not even suspect.

On the electrical, run groud wire straps over the engine. Connect each head to a frame ground, and the batt ground to the motor...it can do wonders; even will get your injectors more consistant.

 

[98 TGP TOY]

Thanx for all the recommendations guys. Its greatly appreciated.

Mike K - I wont be able to get a complete scan this week. I have a hectic week of school ahead of me. Ill try to get one over my break next week. Also, all my mods are listed. I am only running 9 psi, also.

Bumpin - I have a feeling justin is a member, and that I have bought something from him before, but I cant remember who he is?

Syp - An intercooler would definitely help. But its just band-aiding a problem that, IMO, should not exist. So I would never be able to take full advantage of the IC.

Ron - I have been thinking the same thing lately about the water injection. But would still want to fix this knock problem first.

About the grounds. Would it work to run wire from the heads to the battery ground? So I will have 1 wire from each head. I thin on the front one i can just go off the passenger upper mount and the back one i can go from where the hoist bracket was. Would that work....i dont have a view of the engine right now, so im unsure on that mount location.

 

[imported_Ron Vogel]

First off, any Pep boys/ Autozone will have the grounds, you will need to measure what lengths you'll need. The batt to frame ground is right below the fuse relay center. 1-10mm bolt holds it on, take it off, and clean the paint/rust off the frame first, that makes a good mount for grounds to the motor. I ran a wire from that to one head, and daisy chained it to the other. My idle improved, and my headlights got brighter. It was one of the first mods I did to my car, and I've always had lower KR for the pullies I've run. Put some thick grease or RTV over the chassis to frame ground when you're done, it'll keep corrosion down. HTH

 

[98 TGP TOY]

What gauge would be best? I have some extra wire around that i will use if possible.


No-one has thoughts on the injectors? Anyone notice and improvement after that injector cleaning mod day?

 

[imported_Ron Vogel]

Also, I wouldn't worry too much about the head gasket issue yet. You've been driving on a untuned combination for a signifigant amount of time. I'd think because of this, you may have excess carbon build up contributing to your KR. Colder plugs, richer mixtures, cooler running temps all allow carbon to build up quickly. Run a few tanks of Techron, change the oil, and see how she goes. Your KR will be higher with the Techron in, so scan after you know it's all run through. I'm shying away from reccomending the Sea-foam, it seems to work too quickly and may lead to 02 sensor failure.

 

[98 TGP TOY]

Do you think the GM top end cleaner would work any better? I ran that over the summer. Just checkin, otherwise Ill grab some techron sometime soon.

 

[Fish]

If you add an I/C to an engine that has 0 knock or anything else wrong, its not a bandaid. Its giving you the ability to run colder boost which will turn into better times.

Im gonna have to say a good tune is the MOST effective thing out there. That and make sure that eveything else is proper.

 

[imported_Ron Vogel]

Originally posted by 98 TGP TOY@Nov 16 2004, 10:22 AM
Do you think the GM top end cleaner would work any better?  I ran that over the summer.  Just checkin, otherwise Ill grab some techron sometime soon.

[snapback]60480[/snapback]​

Ehh, no so much...

The whole idea behind a IC is to run cooler intake temps yes, but why?...to reduce combustion chamber temps. The same effects of race gas, or WI or...

The higher the octane, the slower the burn, thae harder it is to combust fuel. The lower the octane, the quicker the burn...READ; more energy released.
So you go and fuel it up to cool down combustion temps, you carbon up the cyliders, waste excess gas, make it harder to compess the mix...
You add an IC, lean the mix; now KR is gone...but you've tuned the engine to operate more efficiently in a short range where the IC works in, and everywhere else is skewed, so it can't be tuned well with fueling anymore. You can't control how the IC cools combustion temps, but they need to be controlled for maximum power. To make the most power, you need a tuneable way to adjust fuel, and incoming air temps, or you'll never be able to run right.

Sorry, I'm on a rant...but wi/alky injection is the BEST way period. Otherwise, you're just throwing parts at the car and hoping one of them makes a combo work.

 

[98 TGP TOY]

hehe....i know how an IC works Fish.

What I am saying is this. I should not be making knock right now with 9 psi on a turbo. It just shouldnt be happening, IMO. And definitely not as much as it is with the weather being 45* outside.

Now if I put an IC on, sure I will run better times. But I will not be able to take the IC as far as if i clear away my knock the correct way. If all my knock was because of excess boost and heat....then yes and IC would be the way to go. However I dont feel this is the case with my situation, thus the IC would be a bandaid for the real problem.

See what im saying?



OK Ron...so no top end cleaner. Ill go pick up some techron sometime soon. Probably would be nice to use on the drive home next week...then the drive to ST. Louis...then the drive back home....then the drive back to here


So is there going to be a problem using a bottle a tankful for the next couple. Will that overdue it or not be worth it? They say ever 3,000 miles...but I will be doing 90% highway miles next week and filling up 3-4 times.

Thanx again for the help guys.

 

[imported_Ron Vogel]

I use it in 2 consecutive tankfulls, and it seems to do the trick. Then as regular maintanence, 1 tank right before an oil change. It won't hurt anything, just don't push it hard with it in the gas, and remember to get the formula with valve cleaner in it.

 

[pimpiumz34]

Suggestions -

Setup your PCM to run 17-19 degrees of timing max on pump gas, you can go a little more on race gas
Dial in your O2's a little on the rich side, 930-940 worked well for me

Questions -

Are you using the LS1 MAF blow-thru style?
What base PCM code are you using, L36 or L67?
L67 MAP, or L36 MAP?
Compressor trim, and efficiency range you are operating in?

 

[J.E.T.]

How old is your cat converter?

I've been told KR can be caused by a poor clogged cat. This might be the case especially if you have been running the car rich.


J.E.T.

 

[98 TGP TOY]

Setup your PCM to run 17-19 degrees of timing max on pump gas, you can go a little more on race gas
Dial in your O2's a little on the rich side, 930-940 worked well for me

Its set up to run 14-15 right now. Have been at the 930-960 range for a while.

I am blowing through the lS1 MAF. I am using my L67 code with the L67 map.

Garrett Compressor is a .60 A/R Super S-Trim


Im unsure on the efficiency......i didnt run those numbers. What information would you need for that. I remember you calculation the efficiency a while back and said it was good. I dont know besides that.



Thanx for the suggestion jet...but I dont have a cat