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Old 09-23-2015, 11:23 PM   #1
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Default SSEi wheel hop

So I got the twincharged 6MT SSEi out to the track finally. 15.0 @ 96mph, 2.5 60', 7.5psi boost max according to the scangauge.

So - wheel hop. When I go to launch the car in a more serious racetrack manner, it hooks hard but within 10ft it starts to wheel hop. It's not peeling out, just starts to wheel hop and of course I had to lift some to get it to stop or risk exploding the trans. But I was not really expecting that. It will wheel hop on wet pavement too if I just let the clutch drop, I thought that was because of the crappy roads out here until now.

The suspension setup: hockey puck mounts on the subframe, puck mounts in on the rear drivetrain mounts, poly on the front torqued down hard. There is not much play in the motor mounts, motor is far more tied down than stock would have been. LCA bushings are OE, strut mounts are OE replacements, front springs are a random W-body spring, KYB AGXs set to 4 (can't hook as well at lower settings), sway bar links are poly. I get nearly zero torque steer. Axles are the 800hp DSS monsters, using the Saab/Cobalt jackshaft. Tires are some form of rubber in a circle shape at 5/32 made by Continental.

If I ease into the clutch and roll into the throttle I can keep it out of hopping (a rolling start with controlled throttle works too). But the best I can manage is a 2.4 60' before wheel hop, and the trap speed is 2-3mph, ET .3 slower compared to the 2.5 with wheel hop. So that's no fun.

Thoughts? Too little spring up front - too much solid mount - not enough tire - not enough strut?

Last time I ran was with the NIC and a 3.25 on the gen 3, still with the slushbox 4t65, didn't see any wheel hop.

And thanks to a friend, here is the video of the run. Hooks, goes, wheel hops (with associated screeches as it grabs and hops again), all the way through 1st gear.

http://vid571.photobucket.com/albums...pshfbc1qy6.mp4
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Old 09-23-2015, 11:55 PM   #2
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Wheel hop usually happens on hard radials when they are on the verge of hooking. So spin hook spin hook.

Best way to get rid of it is installing real racing tires (bias plys drag slicks is best) 2nd best ET street or other drag radial tires. These tires are softer when set at low pressure and absorb a lot of the impact of the launch. They also allow a lot more power off the line of course. This will correct most of the wheel hop issue. But then you might smoke your clutch if you aren't use to it or the clutch isn't up to par.

If you don't want to spend money on good tires then you need driver mods. Take off very progressively and roll in gradually on the throttle as to not overcome the traction. You want tires squealing for traction not hoping or spinning.
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Old 09-24-2015, 12:06 AM   #3
 
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Out of curiosity any idea what the tire pressure was? If I was wheelhopping 1st thing id do is take the tire pressure down.

I realize those are not DR's or slicks but still the fact that its got wheel hop is suprising to me anyways

Edit as to what Twinv6gtp said the MickeyThompson ET Streets I have on pregen wheels set to @26 psi was awesome on the street! Car hooked wayyyyyy better than the allseasons obviously. This was in the S1X E85 gen5 2.8 pulley car I have.

So for a set of DR's
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Old 09-24-2015, 12:18 AM   #4
 
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I would say tires first that will probably fix your issue
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Old 09-24-2015, 12:18 AM   #5
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20psi on the front tires.
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Old 09-24-2015, 08:38 AM   #6
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I'd up the pressure on those. If they are summer tires, a low setting does nothing for them because the sidewall is stuff. so 30 ish should be better. Or just get a set of DR's and go from there.
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Old 09-24-2015, 10:22 AM   #7
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More traction would fix the issue. Tires loose traction in the TQ band, crappy Wbody mounts, suspension, and bushing then allow a significant amount of wheel hop.
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Old 09-24-2015, 10:54 AM   #8
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im surprised you get wheel hop.

i've never done that in my car
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Old 09-24-2015, 11:00 AM   #9
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So I guess I have to ask, solid or poly LCA bushings will help reduce this? H-body they are both axial to the rotation of the LCA:


I'd like to understand how when it was still 4t65 it would never wheel hop like that but now that it's manual why it hops. Because the only time I would be running DRs is when I do go to the track, and that's not the only time I have to watch wheel hop. I'm not ruling out bad tires, might try the other set just to see.

17" Drag radials good enough? Brakes are too big to fit anything less than 17" wheels anyhow.
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Old 09-24-2015, 11:05 AM   #10
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wait what trans is in this?
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Old 09-24-2015, 11:08 AM   #11
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f40 six speed grom the G6
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Old 09-24-2015, 11:34 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kay Jay View Post
im surprised you get wheel hop.

i've never done that in my car
In that video of us racing 40,000 years ago, your car wheel hops as soon as your turbo spools. I've been trying to find it, to no avail.
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Old 09-24-2015, 11:36 AM   #13
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So I guess I have to ask, solid or poly LCA bushings will help reduce this? H-body they are both axial to the rotation of the LCA:


I'd like to understand how when it was still 4t65 it would never wheel hop like that but now that it's manual why it hops. Because the only time I would be running DRs is when I do go to the track, and that's not the only time I have to watch wheel hop. I'm not ruling out bad tires, might try the other set just to see.

17" Drag radials good enough? Brakes are too big to fit anything less than 17" wheels anyhow.
It's not just those, it's the motor mounts and whatnot. SRT-4 owners run these mounts that vibrate the car to all hell to keep it from wheel hopping. It's violent as fuhhhk, I remember taking passes with one of my friends SRT-4 (shooting for 13's stock) and it was one of the most violent wheel hopping experiences I've ever felt.
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Old 09-24-2015, 11:37 AM   #14
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In that video of us racing 40,000 years ago, your car wheel hops as soon as your turbo spools. I've been trying to find it, to no avail.
i dont think it did, i remember the vid, i think it was just burning off the tires
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Old 09-24-2015, 11:45 AM   #15
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The Cruze wheels hops like crazy
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Old 09-24-2015, 12:13 PM   #16
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Drivetrain mounts are all custom, there is no give in them, they are all hard rubber and poly already.
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Old 09-24-2015, 12:24 PM   #17
 
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I am unsure i've actually seen these things really wheel hop....
Just shitty hooking is all and ass ends dropping half a foot...
At least compared to some SRT4's and Mazda's in the past where
the wheel would violently jump up and down.

My feelings are this...

1) Get the right tires (slicks) for the track, and right psi.
2) Lower the front with good parts. Not bouncy ass shit.
3) Raise the rear end (if you can do cable mod, the better)
4) Solid/Poly mounts...

Your video shows ass end dropping a ton... That there is major problem
and traction. In my video here, can see how the front was riding
much higher than the rear going down the track. My 60 foots and junk
where horrible.... this was before lowering the front and cable mod in rear.



At the end, i was able to grab 1.5x 60 foots on virtually no track prep ...


Also I bet the manual trans and its long axle probably doesn't help things...
And I am sure probably just need practice to launch it with that combo...
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Old 09-24-2015, 02:36 PM   #18
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In the car it shook bad enough that my rearview mirror mount separated from the glass, flipped the scangauge up off it's mount and threw the cell phone out of it's mount (I was going to record the run from inside but guess not). It felt like wheel hop, might not have been able to see it in the video.

Define lower the front with good parts? I'm 3/4" lower in the front, using the KYB AGXs and a stock replacement W-body spring. I thought those were good, but I wouldn't be the first to use a coilover setup if needed.

Rear end I've been wanting to do something about for a while now. What I had in mind was some kind of simple anti-squat that I could adjust with the air level control shocks.

I think up front I'm going to go with a simple traction bar setup, and change the OE LCA bushings to poly. Should help the issue when I'm driving it on the streets.
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Old 09-24-2015, 03:28 PM   #19
 
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Quote:
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In the car it shook bad enough that my rearview mirror mount separated from the glass, flipped the scangauge up off it's mount and threw the cell phone out of it's mount (I was going to record the run from inside but guess not). It felt like wheel hop, might not have been able to see it in the video.

Define lower the front with good parts? I'm 3/4" lower in the front, using the KYB AGXs and a stock replacement W-body spring. I thought those were good, but I wouldn't be the first to use a coilover setup if needed.

Rear end I've been wanting to do something about for a while now. What I had in mind was some kind of simple anti-squat that I could adjust with the air level control shocks.

I think up front I'm going to go with a simple traction bar setup, and change the OE LCA bushings to poly. Should help the issue when I'm driving it on the streets.
Possibly the passenger side going crazy? Since that is the side with the much longer axle ?

Good parts, i mean not ebay china shit or cheapo springs.

If trying to build a track machine, coil overs are your best bet.

I'd recommend if you could to build your own vs hacking a strut. Much better results I like to think.
As you can shop around for a proper strut insert for your liking.







In my case, I don't use a helper spring, as car doesn't see much street driving (well past 2 years, no driving)
but it felt fine on the street/highway usage I did with them. But it seemed to help a bunch to get
the traction going.

If you can do the cable mod on the car, that is the cheapest, and most effective results you can get.
I am getting better 60 foots than ZZP did with Kalo's turbo impala years ago, and he had wheelie/traction bars.

It would be interesting to see how the passenger side wheel is. Figure a way to mount a go-pro up in there and
launch it some where and see the travel up close? Seen that on a few Subaru's that do testing to see how
suspension parts/ect are working out..
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Old 09-26-2015, 03:27 PM   #20
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the riv hated the tires when it wasn't jacked up in the back by moving the suspension height sensor rod and then pull the fuse

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Old 10-07-2015, 05:21 PM   #21
 
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Get some limit straps or cables set up on the front. I tried EVERYTHING to cure wheel hop on my Park Avenue (tried bracing the control arms, 315mm drag radials, strut tower braces, new suspension, pumped up the rear air shocks, etc and nothing helped) and limit cables was what finally did it. You can preload them if you want, but I don't think you need to. You just need to rig something to keep the front end from rising when accelerating.
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