3800 Engine Rebuild Suggestions?

[98 TGP TOY]

Hey guys, I have recently bought a 2000 l67. I am in the process of tearing it down. Temporarily stalled due to my school load. But will be tearing it down the rest of the way after valentines day. Then once the tear down is done, I will be buidling it back up with all new performance parts. So, I just wanted to see if anyone had any suggestions on the machining I should or could get done with the block. Is there anything tricky about the actualy dissasembly that I should know about, or anything to be careful with. My basic goal is to make the bottom end completely bullet proof. I will by cryoing and coating the engine and parts also. Here is my present parts list, so tell me if I am missing anything:

Oil Pump
L32 Rods
Front cover gasket
Oil Pan gasket
Oil pump screen
Rear main seal
Clevite Cam bearings
Double Roller Timing Chain
Crank oil seal
Water Pump Pulley
Diamond Forged Pistons
Water Pump Gasket
MLS Head Gaskets
ARP Main Studs
ARP Head studs
ARP Rod bolts
Clevite Rod bearings
Clevite Main Bearings
Oil Pressure kit
Pushrods
Stock valve lifters
Camshaft

And if anyone is the least bit interested, I will be posting pics of the tear down as I go on my webpage. http://s92003205.onlinehome.us/10414.html

Also, I am undecided on what I will be doing for a power adders. I havent decided between a custom csc project or turbo. So suggestions with that is also welcomed. The other goal is to keep this as streetable as possible. Doesnt need to get 30+ mpg, but I dont want things breaking all the time. Thanx guys.

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[BlkJak]

sounds like you plan to rock!!!! Good luck!!!

 

[98 TGP TOY]

Thanx man.

So no one here has any suggestions. Annnyyyyy

 

[gtphale]

just get an l32 and bolt everything onto it

 

[98 TGP TOY]

That wouldnt be nearly strong enough for what i want to run.

 

[gtphale]

hmm Zoomer runs it so I think it should be strong enough for you

 

[98 TGP TOY]

It may be plenty for him. He has time and money to rebuild an engine if it fails, but i wont. I will be going all out on it the first time, so I never have to mess with it again.

 

[sweetness]

Personally im not a big fan of CSC. Full boost doesn't come on til shift point, so whats the point?? Turbo will have full boost with at least 1/3 of the power band left. that engine is going to love boost. I didn't see you mention heads or cams. What are your plans in that department??

BC

 

[dole21]

what are you gonna do about a trans?....beef it up to? or.....

 

[98 TGP TOY]

The heads and cam will be entirely dependent on the power adder, as you need a different setup for each, well its preferred. Yea that whole transmission thing. I am undecided on what to do about that. But since I am a college kid with a p/t job, I think i may have a lil bit to think about it.... So I will figure that part out later.

 

[beyerch]

Originally posted by sweetness@Feb 12 2004, 12:50 AM
Personally im not a big fan of CSC. Full boost doesn't come on til shift point, so whats the point?? Turbo will have full boost with at least 1/3 of the power band left. that engine is going to love boost. I didn't see you mention heads or cams. What are your plans in that department??

BC

I would beg to differ with this. its a function of what pulley you run as to when the boost is really kicking in..... Even with my 3.8" pulley I can torque break it and get good boost quickly.

 

[sr71_rgl]

Originally posted by sweetness@Feb 12 2004, 12:50 AM
Personally im not a big fan of CSC.

You really can't go wrong w/a CSC set up. High, more controlled boost and easier to IC. I just wish GM did it from the factory

 

[98 TGP TOY]

How do you mean easier to intercool? Easier than stock, yea sure. Easier than a turbo, then no. I/C a turbo and csc would be the same. Also, I was under the impression you dont need to run a charge cooler with a csc until you get way up in boost. ZZ doesnt offer it with any of their packages.


So which do you guys think is the best/easiest for using at the strip one day, then using it for daily driver the next day.


Also, If you push large amounts of boost at the strip, then swap pulley, or lower boost with boost controller, then will the pcm like that. I mean, it takes a lot of tuning to push a lot of boost successfully. Will you be able to go to less boost for daily driving without having to retune for it.

Also, is there a noticeable reliability difference. Or will both turbo and csc last several years, if installed and maintained correctly. Thanx guys.

 

[gtphale]

Originally posted by 98 gtp toy@Feb 11 2004, 11:38 PM
It may be plenty for him. He has time and money to rebuild an engine if it fails, but i wont. I will be going all out on it the first time, so I never have to mess with it again.

That has to be the funnist thing I have ever heard. You plan on modding the crap out of the car and not have to wrench on it and rebuild it? When you start pushing the power that you are talking about you will constantly be working on that car. It won't be a safe daily driver. Things will fail and break constantly. Aslo you said that you have time to figure out a trans? Only way you will have time to figure out the trans is if you don't do this work for a year or so. And then worry about the trans. With this kind of power you will need a trans fast. As soon as I did my cam my trans slipped on the way home and would bang off the rev limiter and that was with only an m90.

Sorry if I sound like an ass but it just drives me nuts when kids come on here saying they want to do this and that,but don't have the money or a second car. Cause you will need it and alot of cash. Just ask Pictor,myself,Brian,J/O,Charles,and Scott Cook from Intense and they will all tell you the same thing.

 

[GTPictor]

Yes lots and lots of cash. Didnt have a prob with my tranz after cam or 2.6 pully on a ic m90 but with my mp112 and everything else you will need a tranz bad. good luck thou. it will be fun to see how it turns out. Also take a look into my garage and see how much ive spent so far without the added cost of the new motor. later.

 

[CoolGTX]

easy rule of thumb, modding these cars....confucious says (if you cant afford to fix it, you cant afford to mod it.) h34r:

 

[98 TGP TOY]

You plan on modding the crap out of the car and not have to wrench on it and rebuild it

I plan on not having to do it every weekend. I plan on breaking things, but breaking a flexplate is a lot different then breaking a rod or a piston, because of not doing it right the first time.

Also you said that you have time to figure out a trans? Only way you will have time to figure out the trans is if you don't do this work for a year or so

Ding ding ding. lets go back to a previous qoute.

Yea that whole transmission thing. I am undecided on what to do about that. But since I am a college kid with a p/t job, I think i may have a lil bit to think about it.... So I will figure that part out later.

Do you know how slowly the money comes in when you work only 20-25 hours a week at a restaurant. When you have other college expenses to cover. I will not be having this thing done in a month. I wont have it done in two months. My best estimate, if I am able to get a summer job is to do the swap next winter, unless some luck comes my way. That is about a year off. So i do think I will have time to figure this out.

Sorry if I sound like an ass but it just drives me nuts when kids come on here saying they want to do this and that,but don't have the money or a second car.

Let me tell you flat out right now, I am not just another kid. I have thought this whole thing out. I will have the heads, cam, and engine being worked on as my money comes in. But none of this is going into the car until I have better transmission. I do realize that this is a lot of money, and I do know what I am doing. But look at it this way, you, Pictor,Brian,J/O,Charles,and Scott Cook are doing all the breaking right now. So by the time I get my setup going, I will know what's breaking and come up with a solution. I may find some new things, but thats part of the game.

And I am usually not an ass, but you are the second "older" guy this week to talk down to me like i dont know shit. I am dead tired of this crap, that since I am only 19, means that I dont know anything. It just pisses me off.

 

[gtphale]

Its not cause your only 19 its cause you don't realize the money that goes into this untill you are in it. As for quote earlier was alittle harsh and came out wrong. If you need a hand with part of it or questions i'll be there to help you out. But I hate seeing younger people get involved with it and then get stuck not being able to front the bill and not enjoying the car.

People like the above mentioned have blown alot of money on our cars on stupid things,and we can and will help you and others avoid those things. I mainly get tired of the 30 emails I get asking about doing cam's intercooler,head and other big boy mods till they find out how much it cost. Or they do it and then can't afford the trans when it goes and car is sold cheap.

Just don't take it wrong way and if I put it the wrong way sorry.But like J/O's saying above it is very true.If you can't afford to fix it you shouldn't mod it. If its your only car then you shouldn't play like a big boy. Just things I have learned from personnal experiance with my silver 97.

 

[98 TGP TOY]

Well, I just get frustrated sometimes.

I like to research stuff until my brain fries, then keep researching it until I get all my answers. So I do realize what I am getting into. That was the reason for this post. I already have a good idea what i want to do, but I wanted see if I missed anything. I have posted on clubgp, iacgp, and here just to see if I missing things. And I do realize I will need help in the future, nobody knows everything. I just want to get all my questions cleared before I dig in.

Also, I do have a second car coming to me in a couple months (just remembered). My brother will get a new car and I will get the old 92 bonneville that has been past down through the family. My old car...sniff sniff. It will be worth about 12 dollars by the time i get it. But better than nothing.

 

[rob]

Wow, I think what Hale is saying is when you start modifying your constantly going to be maintaining stuff. Or breaking stuff. Things wear out faster in a performance application when your beating around at WOT. Then you start going to the track with slicks.....stretching transverse chains and shattering imput shafts.
After a few seasons you notice your loosing compression-time for new rings and bearings dispite good pistons and a quality build. Especially SC engines.

Its all very expensive....I think I have rights to the big money club too. MAP IC's and MP112'dont come cheap. I ported my own heads so I could put the money into the trans-every time you turn around someone has their hand out. I wonder how far the balance guy is going to stick it in me?? You have to expect that....no way around it. The more you know the more you can save.
All us old guys are trying to do is save you a little time and $$$$. Thats the whole idea of the ILGPC. No cock fights-just a constant stream of information enabling you to make better modding desisions.

 

[CoolGTX]

Originally posted by rob@Feb 14 2004, 11:31 AM
Wow, I think what Hale is saying is when you start modifying your constantly going to be maintaining stuff. Or breaking stuff. Things wear out faster in a performance application when your beating around at WOT. Then you start going to the track with slicks.....stretching transverse chains and shattering imput shafts.
After a few seasons you notice your loosing compression-time for new rings and bearings dispite good pistons and a quality build. Especially SC engines.

Its all very expensive....I think I have rights to the big money club too. MAP IC's and MP112'dont come cheap. I ported my own heads so I could put the money into the trans-every time you turn around someone has their hand out. I wonder how far the balance guy is going to stick it in me?? You have to expect that....no way around it. The more you know the more you can save.
All us old guys are trying to do is save you a little time and $$$$. Thats the whole idea of the ILGPC. No cock fights-just a constant stream of information enabling you to make better modding desisions.

id love to see your MAP in person, before you put it on, any chance? They are shipping already, and on a few cars this weekend.

can you call me when you get yours?
708-351-9728

J/O

 

[rob]

YES-You can also see it fitted with the MP112-Mike at MAP is customizing a MAP IC to work with the MP112.

Before I install it im getting a manifold from Hale to test WI and PI with my M90 to explore if any KR reductions can be safely gained from injecting water or propane.

I dont have it yet. Ill contact you when I get it-sould be ready next week. Id love to show it off.....he he Next mod day or if you just want to come over and see it. Thats fine. I live by Alfredo on the SS of Chicago. I'll let you know when I get it. I cant wait to see it aswell.

 

[CoolGTX]

Originally posted by rob@Feb 14 2004, 06:05 PM
YES-You can also see it fitted with the MP112-Mike at MAP is customizing a MAP IC to work with the MP112.

Before I install it im getting a manifold from Hale to test WI and PI with my M90 to explore if any KR reductions can be safely gained from injecting water or propane.

I dont have it yet. Ill contact you when I get it-sould be ready next week. Id love to show it off.....he he Next mod day or if you just want to come over and see it. Thats fine. I live by Alfredo on the SS of Chicago. I'll let you know when I get it. I cant wait to see it aswell.

alfredo lives by ME!!!!! :lol: :lol:

 

[98 TGP TOY]

Rob - That was the reason why I posted this question, is to get tips and tricks for saving myself money and getting some more information from the people that have been there and done that. gtphale just sounded like he was talking down to me, and I dont like being talked down too. But misunderstanding behind us, and now I'm waiting for the useful knowledge and tips. Thanx.

 

[LP 3800]

I cannot tell you any advise yet that you have not heard. This will be my first time running a car this serious, so we find out how things work. It sounds like we will have a small group of people that will be doing some serious 1/4's this year and we can all break stuff together. Unfortunately no one was like this last year for us to ask about.
The only thing that matters is that when all this stuff does start to go wrong, ILGPC will be there for us and we will be there for them