3800 L36 running low 14s

iliveonnitro

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Nov 11, 2008
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Schaumburg, IL
First off, anyone have any links of this being done? 13 second L36 would be nice too.

I think I figured this out almost, but you guys need to help me a little, and give suggestions. This is what I have/am planning on getting for my car, with my pricing ($0 for things ive done/are free), also includes connections that I have to get a discount. These are all flywheel ratings.

~200hp $0 Stock :blink:
~6hp $0 Cold air intake
~1hp $0 TB screen rem
~20hp $680 headers
~10hp $0 hi-flow cat (included with headers
~13hp $200 cat-back
~20hp $350 ZZP ER rockers
~2hp $130 INTENSE pushrods
~10hp $225 DHP PCM
~13hp? $200 ZZP HV Intake Insert
~2hp $0 160* drilled T-stat
~0hp $400 17x8 O.Z. Superleggera rims (16.5lbs/ea)
~0hp $535 245/45/17 tires (Kumho Ecsta MX, Nitto NT-555R)
~3hp $0 Royal Purple 10w30 Synthetic Oil
~0hp $0 Taylor 8mm plug wires
~7hp $350 ZZP L36 TB (Stage 2)
~0hp $0 Remove spare, floor mats, front left headlight, 1/3 tank gas
------
307hp (estimate), flywheel
245hp (estimate), wheels
$3070 including install/shipping prices. I also have xmas to get some gifts for free to save me some money. Also planning on winning the DHP PCM to save me $225 :). I might be able to get a discount on the 4 tires too. Could also tack on a used medium setting shift kit for my trans for $50 from I believe...Mike? I think thats who it was...god I suck with remembering names. He was at Woodfield last week.

That should run low 14's, right? I'm guessing around 14.3? Or would it push 14.1s with a good launch?

See any flaw in favor/not in favor of these mods? Any ideas, suggestions, comments, tips, corrections, connections to help me with $$...or anything?

Thanks, James
 

sweetness

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Nov 12, 2008
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Originally posted by dole21@Dec 12 2003, 07:19 PM
just curious, but does different oil or a colder thermostat add HP? I've never heard that before.
a differnet thermostat won't ADD hp, but it could help recover some lost to heat.

I think you have over estimated the hp numbers on some of those cars. Intense has a 13 sec Gt and it took a lot more than just that to get there.
 

Royalgtp

TCG Elite Member
Dec 24, 2008
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Originally posted by iliveonnitro@Dec 12 2003, 07:11 PM
~200hp $0 Stock :blink:
~6hp $0 Cold air intake
~1hp $0 TB screen rem
~20hp $680 headers
~10hp $0 hi-flow cat (included with headers
~13hp $200 cat-back
~20hp $350 ZZP ER rockers
~2hp $130 INTENSE pushrods
~10hp $225 DHP PCM
~13hp? $200 ZZP HV Intake Insert
~2hp $0 160* drilled T-stat
~0hp $400 17x8 O.Z. Superleggera rims (16.5lbs/ea)
~0hp $535 245/45/17 tires (Kumho Ecsta MX, Nitto NT-555R)
~3hp $0 Royal Purple 10w30 Synthetic Oil
~0hp $0 Taylor 8mm plug wires
~7hp $350 ZZP L36 TB (Stage 2)
~0hp $0 Remove spare, floor mats, front left headlight, 1/3 tank gas
------
307hp (estimate), flywheel
245hp (estimate), wheels
I think you have over estimated some of them too. Maybe if you had a SC and a small pulley coud you see some of those mod numbers.

Dont you need some supporting INternal engine mods for that CSG package? Shure it might not blow up on you righ then and there but id be a little worried about dependability w/o replacing some internals(pistond/conecting rods/etc).
 

iliveonnitro

TCG Elite Member
Nov 11, 2008
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Schaumburg, IL
But also remember, the more you put into it for an area, the more another area helps benefit the power.

eg. ER ratio rockers and the intake insert would help add a tad more HP increase from a cat-back, than if it were just a cat back.

Also, I think I may have only really overestimated the headers and maybe the DHP. These aren't wheel hp, there is like a 20% drivetrain loss.

Hot Rod Magazine did a test awhile ago on an 11 second camaro with fully synthetic Royal Purple oil. Rear wheel HP increase was around 5, and 8hp at the flywheel if I remember correctly.

A stat frees up about a horse or two when your engine starts getting to operating temperature. It helps slow and cool the engine down more by releasing the coolant earlier than if it were the 195* stat. I think Easy Performance Products/ZZP did a test on that, and it yielded about 3hp freed up on a GTP.
 

iliveonnitro

TCG Elite Member
Nov 11, 2008
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Schaumburg, IL
Originally posted by beyerch@Dec 13 2003, 05:42 PM
where the hell have you been ? My 97 SE w/ l36 is current running 13.7 w/ ~3400 in it. Its ALOT faster than 13.7 but ran out of T&T time so official time is 13.7. Probably should be in the 13.3 - 13.1 range.

Get a CSC.
i love you. rofl :p

What did you have to do to your car besides the CSC?
 

sweetness

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Nov 12, 2008
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FI= Forced Induction

get a turbo or CSC and i don't think you will have ANY issue getting 13's or maybe high 12's. :D

As for the internals... There is no need to change out the internals. The l36 is running at 9.5:1 iirc and that will allow you to run somewhere on the order of 8-10psi (with appropriate fueling and intercooling.) You won't really need to change the internals unless you want to run some serious boost. In fact i think the INTENSE forged pistons for the GTP bring the CR up to 9.5:1 as well. If the L36 were running say 10.5:1 or 11:1 then i would think running boost would start to get dangerous past a few psi, but with stock internals you should be fine up to about 10psi. (FI f-bodies typically run about 8 intercooled psi on 10.5:1 stock CR. Just for comparision sake running that kind of boost on an LS1 will net you somewhere in the line of 500 whp 550wtq depending on the set up.)

oh, and the OR pushrods shouldn't add any more hp. What they will do is allow the lifters to pump up faster, giving you a little extra power sooner.
 

Fish

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I agree. If your going to dump over 3k for engine mods, et a CSC. I personally cant, so I add all the other L36 mods. If your going to stay N/A, get S%S headers instead of togs. Cheaper,:D and not as big since you really dont need 3' headers for N/A. With a Cam, CAI, TB, headers, exhaust work, the intake insert, and catback,and DHP, Id maybe see 14.6-14.3. It all depends on the car, and the driver. You will also want the HD tranny upgrade for the extra power your going to be adding. But once again, if you have the money, get the CSC and do the other L36 mods. Youll be in the top 10 of this club most definatly.:D


BTW, N/A means naturally aspirated.= no super or turbochargers.


And sweetness is correct. (again.:D ) You dont need to do any internal work for the CSC kit. You can technically install it on a stock N/A 3800.
 

iliveonnitro

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Nov 11, 2008
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Schaumburg, IL
I am not using this as a base reference: http://zzperformance.com/zzp/products/csc/...ugal_sc_kit.htm

I knew the n/a part, but I just automatically think Fuel Injected instead of Forced Induction :/.

If I can only safely run up to 8-10psi of boost, what would be the point of ZZP's new stage 4 supercharger that pumps out over 11+ psi, giving the car some 350 wheel hp? Wouldn't the engine kinda go boom?

Also, can I use those ER rockers, and intake insert and all that other stuff on top of the CSC kit?

Say I wanted the stage 3. For some reason, it only seems that the stage 3 is basically a stage 2 with a custom DHP PCM for $400 more and a core charge. Can anyone confirm or disprove that? Does Charles save all the "custom" things that people want, so I can jsut order the stage 2, and ask him to program the stage 3 settings into the DHP PCM?

This is becoming more of a reality every time i look at it.
 

beyerch

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Jan 20, 2009
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Well as of RIGHT now i have ....

115 K miles stock L36 long block.
115 K miles stock trans 4t60 :eek:
42.5 Injectors
Walbro 340 fuel pump
Cut out
TOG headers

Stage 4 CSC w/ intercooler water-to-air.

PCM tuning *duh* :D

When I ran out at MGM in michigan I ran a 13.9 with the 3.8 pulley. I have pullies down to 3.2. I slapped on the 3.4 pulley and picked up another 3mph in the traps; however, I only dropped to a 13.7 due to traction issues on the launch. Also I had 7 degrees of timing pulled out (forgot spare pcm's and crap so didn't want to chance flashing problems 4 hours from home). Also was slightly rich.

If I would have had more time, I probably could have hit some real low 13's, but I had to work at the event so I had to park the car :angry:

Next year I'll be back with more boost, cam, stronger pistons, rods, and a better trans.
 

Fish

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Yeah, if I were to get that kit, just get the stage 4 with the I/C. You can add the rockers and the intake insert ontop of the supercharger. If you go cam, I believe you would be better off with a blower cam instead of a N/A cam. And once again, THIS IS A MUST, tranny upgrade. Even the HD upgrade is better than the stock GT tranny.
 

sweetness

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It wouldn't necessarily go boom.. but you couldn't just slap that thing on a stock GT and expect 350 hp. Im sure with the apporpriate tuning, fuel management, and supporting mods you could run 11 psi, but i would think you are starting to get to the limit of the stock internals. The gt wasn't built for boost (at least when compared to the GTP) and wouldn't be able to take the kind of boost a gtp could without some internal swaps. Personally i would be really worried running 11 psi on a stock internal gt, but it looks like some people are doing it. Like i said, the forged internals for the gtp bring up a 9.5:1 cr and people are running more than 11 psi, but those are forged internals and by design can take a higher CR or more boost. Maybe i am underestimating the internal strength of an L36 but i couldn't be underestimating it too much. I would guess that 11 psi is right there near the limit.

BC
 

Fish

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You can technically buy the stage 1 and get all the other components separate. The DHP would be cheaper, you can get a different pulley, the fuel injectors can be bought separate. Thats the only real thing separating the stages basically. What comes with it and how much.
 
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