School me on the gp gtp
- Thread starter The Bluegrass Nomad
- Start date
link to car FS?
Id check for rust under the rocker panels, under the doors, and in the trunk over the strut towers.
Id make sure the trans shifts nice and the fluid isn't burnt or has metal in it.
Lower intake manfold gaskets and valve cover gaskets are common problems.
Parts are cheap for these cars if you need anything. Also mods...
Id check for rust under the rocker panels, under the doors, and in the trunk over the strut towers.
Id make sure the trans shifts nice and the fluid isn't burnt or has metal in it.
Lower intake manfold gaskets and valve cover gaskets are common problems.
Parts are cheap for these cars if you need anything. Also mods...
Usually with a aftermarket radio the steering wheel controls will not work unless they buy a control box (which most don't) You could use that in negotiations when you find stuff that is broken or not working. It also has something in the cubby hole in front of the shifter, I cant make out what it is.
If I understand right, the four doors didn't rot as bad as the two doors. I'd rather have a 2 door but the only way my wife would let me get a car is if it were a four door. Just means if I do mod, less people will expect it
I dunno if there is any truth to that
Along with the gas door, pinch welds under the rocker panels and rear strut towers, I would also firmly tap the area behind the rear wheel, where the metal 1/4 panel and plastic bumper come together. I had issues where the paint chipped of in large chunks in this area on both sides. Silver is a hard color to match, and it doesn't look resprayed or painted, however, this is also another problem area.
Ask for the history of when they changed the supercharger fluid. In the snout, you need to change this out every oil change or there-abouts. 90% of the people don't change it and the gears wear out. If you have them check it it should be VERY thick and smell horribly like rotten fish. This is NORMAL!!! However, if the salesman doesn't know any better, you can say that this hasn't been changed in a while and COULD require the supercharger (which is an Eaton M-90) to have to be serviced. This could give you another point wher you can negotiate the price. A new Supercharger is not hard to swap out, but kind of a P.I.T.A. The car should have a Gen V (or Generation 5) Eaton M-90, which bumped up the hp from 240 (in the Gen III) to 260 in the Gen. V. A Gen III you can get for cheap, but the Gen V will run you about 3 - 5 "C"-notes (btew. $300 to $500). That could be about a car payment or two you could save in your negotation
I forget the size of the alan wrench size, but it should only be torqued down with about 10 to 20 pounds IIRC. If it's tighter and will not come open easily, then it prob hasn't been changed in quite a while and should be done ASAP. If you ask, most people feel it shouldn't be changed so often...HOWEVER...it's oil and oil wears out. When maintained, most people use GM Supercharger Oil, which will cost you about $20 - $30 for 1 (one) measly little bottle (about 7 oz. When I went to my local auto parts store and spoke to the guy I know who is an avid drag racer, he said this is the same stuff as gear oil. I bought a quart of Red Line Gear Oil for about as much as the GM botte. I changed it every other oil change. I drove the car for 4 years and I managed to use the entire quart in that amount of time.
IF THE PLUG IS STUCK!
If the plug is tightened down too much and the alan wrench opeing is stripped, DO NOT WORRY! It is an easy fix. AGAIN, IF this is the case, I would definitely point this out and say, "I am taking a BIG gamble on this Supercharger being reliable and not having to replace the coupler or the whole Supercharger"...or something to this effect. To open it, you will need a dremel (or similar tool) and with the smallest bit you can find. All you have to do is grind or drill the alan opening, so you can use a screw driver to twist it open. You want to grind outward from the center...NOT DOWN INTO THE PLUG! Take your time in grinding it down because you don't want to go into the threads. Also, once you get it unstuck, you will have to clean the metal shavings up, so they don't fall into the snout. I used a magnet and compressed air to get rid of the shavings. Then I cleaned it with regular motor oil.
The Eaton M-90 is a popular blower and used on many platforms. When mine stripped out, I got one from my local G.M. dealer. However, the same plug can be found at your local Ford dealership as well (as the Eaton M-90 was also used on the 3.8 litre Thunderbird Super Coupe).
When you go to change it out, the oil level should only be to the height of the fill opening. You'll quickly notice there is no way to drain this oil easily...so you'll have to suck it out. I used a brake bleeder pump that I bought from Harbor Freight and a clear rubber tube that I got from Ace Hardware. To fill it, I bought a tiny funnel from my local auto parts store for $1.00
When and if you buy one of these, I would definitely recommend getting a ZZP Underdrive Water Pump Pulley. It will give you negligible horsepower gains, BUT will give you around .5 mpg better gas mileage. As a daily driven car, this will add up over time and will eventually pay for itself-especially since you will have to put premium gas in the car.
Ask for the history of when they changed the supercharger fluid. In the snout, you need to change this out every oil change or there-abouts. 90% of the people don't change it and the gears wear out. If you have them check it it should be VERY thick and smell horribly like rotten fish. This is NORMAL!!! However, if the salesman doesn't know any better, you can say that this hasn't been changed in a while and COULD require the supercharger (which is an Eaton M-90) to have to be serviced. This could give you another point wher you can negotiate the price. A new Supercharger is not hard to swap out, but kind of a P.I.T.A. The car should have a Gen V (or Generation 5) Eaton M-90, which bumped up the hp from 240 (in the Gen III) to 260 in the Gen. V. A Gen III you can get for cheap, but the Gen V will run you about 3 - 5 "C"-notes (btew. $300 to $500). That could be about a car payment or two you could save in your negotation
I forget the size of the alan wrench size, but it should only be torqued down with about 10 to 20 pounds IIRC. If it's tighter and will not come open easily, then it prob hasn't been changed in quite a while and should be done ASAP. If you ask, most people feel it shouldn't be changed so often...HOWEVER...it's oil and oil wears out. When maintained, most people use GM Supercharger Oil, which will cost you about $20 - $30 for 1 (one) measly little bottle (about 7 oz. When I went to my local auto parts store and spoke to the guy I know who is an avid drag racer, he said this is the same stuff as gear oil. I bought a quart of Red Line Gear Oil for about as much as the GM botte. I changed it every other oil change. I drove the car for 4 years and I managed to use the entire quart in that amount of time.
IF THE PLUG IS STUCK!
If the plug is tightened down too much and the alan wrench opeing is stripped, DO NOT WORRY! It is an easy fix. AGAIN, IF this is the case, I would definitely point this out and say, "I am taking a BIG gamble on this Supercharger being reliable and not having to replace the coupler or the whole Supercharger"...or something to this effect. To open it, you will need a dremel (or similar tool) and with the smallest bit you can find. All you have to do is grind or drill the alan opening, so you can use a screw driver to twist it open. You want to grind outward from the center...NOT DOWN INTO THE PLUG! Take your time in grinding it down because you don't want to go into the threads. Also, once you get it unstuck, you will have to clean the metal shavings up, so they don't fall into the snout. I used a magnet and compressed air to get rid of the shavings. Then I cleaned it with regular motor oil.
The Eaton M-90 is a popular blower and used on many platforms. When mine stripped out, I got one from my local G.M. dealer. However, the same plug can be found at your local Ford dealership as well (as the Eaton M-90 was also used on the 3.8 litre Thunderbird Super Coupe).
When you go to change it out, the oil level should only be to the height of the fill opening. You'll quickly notice there is no way to drain this oil easily...so you'll have to suck it out. I used a brake bleeder pump that I bought from Harbor Freight and a clear rubber tube that I got from Ace Hardware. To fill it, I bought a tiny funnel from my local auto parts store for $1.00
When and if you buy one of these, I would definitely recommend getting a ZZP Underdrive Water Pump Pulley. It will give you negligible horsepower gains, BUT will give you around .5 mpg better gas mileage. As a daily driven car, this will add up over time and will eventually pay for itself-especially since you will have to put premium gas in the car.
It is not a gen 5 its a gen 3 blower. changing out the oil every other oil change is not needed. at all.
And the water pump pulley is a load of crap. You might as well put a tornado in the intake
No, it was so friggin easy and I never had a problem with my S/C...E-V-E-R! I know of a handful of people who had problems with their snouts on their GTP's and none of them knew how or even thought about changing their S/C oil. It was cheap, simple and was told it was a good idea by my mechanic, so I did it.
It's NOT a load of crap! I bought my ZZP H2O pulley since a year after I bought my GTP. In fact, I bought it because I read in High Performance Pontiac, ZZP sinc'd a blower and turbo on a GTP. After contacting them and starting to mod my car...this was the first thing I bought...before a SLP GTX S/C Pulley and everything else. For tax purposes I had to keep track of my mileage. After a year of driving with and without the pulley, I figured my city mileage increased .5 mpg and highway mileage was about .6 mpg's better.
Then when I got mt 3800 F-body, I went from getting mid 25's city and about 32 highway, to just under 26 city and 33 highway. I drove my 'Bird for 2 months before installing the water pump pulley, and this is what I averaged on THAT car with and without the pulley over that time.
SO, please give me your info and statistics and I will gladly welcome YOUR proof and input!
BTW...I love my H2O Pulley and WILL NOT sell it as long as I still have a 3800 to drive!
The blower oil is not like gl4/gl5 gear oil...its a very close relative of PAG oil used in air conditioning compressors but with a higher sulfer content and anti foaming additives.
that "drag racer" is probably thinking of the old roots blowers that were spun at a very low overdrive vs crank rpm. The m90 spins much faster with a smaller geartrain and much smaller bearings.
A stock pulley blower can use gm SC oil for up to 100k without worry
wp pulley isnt worth it and a stock motors cam, valvesprings, and powerband wont be reving high enough for it to make much of a difference.
he is right about checking for rust at the rear wheelhouse along with the other common rust points mentioned in the thread
that "drag racer" is probably thinking of the old roots blowers that were spun at a very low overdrive vs crank rpm. The m90 spins much faster with a smaller geartrain and much smaller bearings.
A stock pulley blower can use gm SC oil for up to 100k without worry
wp pulley isnt worth it and a stock motors cam, valvesprings, and powerband wont be reving high enough for it to make much of a difference.
he is right about checking for rust at the rear wheelhouse along with the other common rust points mentioned in the thread
its a load of BS
3" F1-Z TORNADO AIR INTAKE TURBO TURBINE TURBONATOR ECO FUEL/GAS SAVER FAN BLACK on eBay!
And changing your S/C oil every oil change, is the equivalent to changing your motor oil every 250 miles.
3" F1-Z TORNADO AIR INTAKE TURBO TURBINE TURBONATOR ECO FUEL/GAS SAVER FAN BLACK on eBay!
And changing your S/C oil every oil change, is the equivalent to changing your motor oil every 250 miles.
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