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Old 08-01-2017, 09:37 PM   #1
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Default auto painting

Hey, looking for recommendations for a decent set of product to do up the new project ride. Chances are I'll have a lot of it in primer before I do the final coating. So what I'm looking at is:

-What Surface prep is compatible with the paint you mention.
-Something that will work well with the bare metal.
-All the paint is gone, I think it's down to treated metal (example pic, not my vehicle below.) How should I prep this in terms of sanding etc? Specialty finishes?
-Single stage or base/clear?
-Jambs or no jambs? I realize that's kind of a preference and limits colors, but am totally on the wall.

I'm looking for "mid range" quality/cost and DIY capable. I don't want a Rustoleum paint job but I don't want to spend $3K on materials for a paint job either. I'd likely be looking for an OE GM color or thereabouts (thinking about keeping the teal, it's got its charms IMO) but may be motivated one way or another.

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Old 08-02-2017, 01:25 PM   #2
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I have seen some quality Rustoleum paintjobs, honestly its all the prep work, taping and cut/buff that will give you the quality finish. Now a rattle can or Rustoleum paintjob won't look as great a year or two down the road but it can be done. If you want it to look good you do need to invest a bit of coin into a true automotive paint system.

First you need to pick a paint color and then find what manufacaturer makes it (custom mixes will be difficult if you ever need to touch up or respray a panel) , it will have it's own recommendations on how to apply it and usually paint companies also have their own primer and filler products that work directly with theirs. They are usually marketed as systems. You can mix and match products but you need to know what your doing in what order to see if the products label sheets work for your needs.

PPG, DuPoint etc all have their own systems. If your looking to save a little coin on the materials you can check out Eastwood in Alsip I have seen several of their products in finished stages and I can't tell the difference between their paint and a 5K paint system. I may use their products on my car when I get to that stage.

You need to examine the car you want to paint and determine if you need to strip it down to bare metal or if you are comfortable and trust that the existing paint will stay for the life of the paint job. In your example pic you see that the paint is coming away from the substrate, if that is the factory or aftermarket paintjob I highly recommend stripping the rest of the vehicle. It would really suck to do all that work and money spent to have the bottom layer start to bubble or peel away later down the road.

There are 2 types of adhesion, mechanical and chemical. Mechanical adhesion will be roughing up the substrate and then applying your base (epoxy primer on bare metal, sealer on painted surfaces) 220 grit is usually the recommendation but only in this step. Depending on how you apply the paint going forward you'll need different grit before you get to your color spray. This is where reading the label/data sheets, most sealers need to be scuffed if your not applying another layer within the 48 hours, if it's under the 48 hours you an tack the surface and apply the next coat (this would be the chemical adhesion).

Now for single stage or base +clear that depends on what you want the final product to look like. Both work, single stage is very durable and can be buffed to a very good finish and can last 40+ years. Base + clear will have a higher gloss and in some cases more depth to the paint. There are many arguments on which is easier or easier to correct but to keep this short pick the color you want, the paint system that works with that color and see what options you have and go from there.

As for jambs if you are doing a color change you should always do the jambs. It will stick out like a sore thumb if you don't. The jambs don't need as many layers as the outside of the car as their not exposed to the elements as much (UV exposure) and won't see the wear and tear. Even if your not doing a color change I still would do the jambs as there will be a big difference between the fresh paint and the older.

I know this was a longer post but this is just a small portion of the information. If you have questions on this or want more detail shoot me a PM.
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Old 08-02-2017, 06:38 PM   #3
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Yeah, the reason I wouldn't do Rustoleum is the lack of UV protection among other caveats.

You were one of the people I was hoping would respond. The paint is actually gone on the roof, but it looks down to primer not bare metal which is an upgrade compared to what I thought. The primer seems solid enough.

I'm not 100% sure I'd trust the original paint to last. It's 90s GM paint which is known for going to shit in a hurry. That said, it also tends to go to shit due to UV which is less of an issue under another coat of paint. That said, I've done some industrial painting before and what you put into prep tends to be what you get out of a paint job. I would rather risk having flaking later than to strip away any sort of plating or coating on the metal, unless that plating affects the adhesion of new paint.
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Old 08-02-2017, 10:23 PM   #4
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For a home project, you can make single stage look pretty good. It's more forgiving to work with. At least IMO. The modern water based clear coat can be pretty difficult to lay flat without runs or a lot of orange peel. You will need a good air compressor either way, but it's especially important if spraying modern clear coat with an HVLP gun. The larger the tank volume the better.
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Old 08-02-2017, 10:27 PM   #5
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Thanks for the heads up, I'm going to at least give it a shot on a panel or two before I actually go whole meal deal. I have a half decent compressor, it's got a 30ish gallon tank and is a real 1HP compressor. It is oiled though, so I figure I'll end up with a new air hose to run post separator.

When my grandfather did body stuff he had separators that were mounted on a board I'm pretty sure he just used to spray cars. Anything like that out there you guys use?
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Old 08-02-2017, 10:31 PM   #6
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If the factory primer is exposed you definitely want to strip to bare metal. Moisture will have gotten through it guaranteed.
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Old 08-02-2017, 11:06 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr_Roboto View Post
Thanks for the heads up, I'm going to at least give it a shot on a panel or two before I actually go whole meal deal. I have a half decent compressor, it's got a 30ish gallon tank and is a real 1HP compressor. It is oiled though, so I figure I'll end up with a new air hose to run post separator.

When my grandfather did body stuff he had separators that were mounted on a board I'm pretty sure he just used to spray cars. Anything like that out there you guys use?
I used inline desiccant dryers. They weren't ideal, but worked well enough. Check out Eastwood and see if they have any classes or demos coming up. They have a store in Alsip.
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Old 08-03-2017, 10:13 AM   #8
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Originally Posted by LikeABauce302 View Post
I used inline desiccant dryers. They weren't ideal, but worked well enough. Check out Eastwood and see if they have any classes or demos coming up. They have a store in Alsip.
I use 2 inline filters, a desiccant and then a disposable filter and a regulator at the gun, I put a few links below. I also have the air line running from the compressor through steel line to cool it off before it get's to the filter/desiccant. The links below are the very cheap and are not the best, you can easily spend $500 on a good filter/desiccant/dryer system. How you run your line is important as well, I need to redo mine before I paint the Nova but having the steel line in several "U" shapes a few feet from the compressor helps cool the moisture and allow it to condense so the filters/desiccant/dryers are more effective.

Desiccant
https://www.amazon.com/Compressed-de.../dp/B00UEUYHOG

Disposable

https://www.amazon.com/DeVilbiss-HAF...0NZ3S08RYEYQ3S

I have a 60 Gal 14cfm @ 90 psi compressor and it's barely up to the job of painting a full car. I don't think your 30gal will have enough air supply for a Astro Van. You will also need a good regulator to keep the pressure down at the spray gun.

I highly second going to Eastwood in Alsip I will be stopping there today for some supplies but they do workshops every weekend for all sorts of things I'll try to grab the schedule while I am there. The classes vary from Powdercoating, painting, airbrushing, pinstriping, MIG/TIG welding 101/201, patch panel creation and all sorts of other shit most are free but some have a cost. The paid classes are usually $60 but the cost is for the supplies like building wheel chocks which you get to keep.

They also do several videos on YouTube showing off their products but they give you really good tips during the process. They also have a few other shows like Hands on Cars etc.

Kevin Tetz also does video's for Eastwood and has his own PaintUCation video's. Kevin is a bit corny but he's good at explaining the whole process from the beginner level to how to paint like a pro. I actually bought his DVD set years ago if you want to borrow it. Some of the videos are from the early 90's but still valid today.
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