New Govt Healthcare Plan

[Blood on Blood]

What is your opinion and why?

I am against it for the following:

*subpar healthcare will be provided.
*it is not an elective program as employers will drop existing employee healthcare coverage like hot cakes, so we will all be under a social plan. Mind you, the rich and politicians will have their own private insurance anyway and receive quality care while we will not.
*tax increases, which will impact small and businesses, and increase job loss.
*tax increases, which will impact you and I.
*doesn't resolve the illegals or the illegitimate poor from receiving free health care w/out paying into the system, while the rest pay for insurance, taxes and our medical bills.
*this new plan is being developed, reviewed and approved way too quick. You have to question its level of quality/effectiveness vs. further harming this nation as we have seen with other decisions/programs this year.

IMO, a step in the right direction, consider:
*severely reduce/limit malpractice suits and insurance fraud (criteria/case review system)
*lower medical and malpractice insurance premiums (result from less fraud/law suits)
*lower prescription medicine/medical supply costs
*lower hospital bills / costs (result from less unpaid healthcare - illegals/illegitimate poor)

Click to read more...

 

[IZZy]

What is your opinion and why?

I am against it for the following:

*subpar healthcare will be provided. (prove it, what info do you have to come to that conclusion?)
*it is not an elective program as employers will drop existing employee healthcare coverage like hot cakes, so we will all be under a social plan. Mind you, the rich and politicians will have their own private insurance anyway and receive quality care while we will not.
*tax increases, which will impact small and businesses, and increase job loss.
*tax increases, which will impact you and I.
*doesn't resolve the illegals or the illegitimate poor from receiving free health care w/out paying into the system, while the rest pay for insurance, taxes and our medical bills. (doing nothing doesnt change that either)
*this new plan is being developed, reviewed and approved way too quick. You have to question its level of quality/effectiveness vs. further harming this nation as we have seen with other decisions/programs this year.

IMO, a step in the right direction, consider:
*severely reduce/limit malpractice suits and insurance fraud (criteria/case review system)
*lower medical and malpractice insurance premiums (result from less fraud/law suits)
*lower prescription medicine/medical supply costs
*lower hospital bills / costs (result from less unpaid healthcare - illegals/illegitimate poor)

?

 

[innrkid]

?

Izzy, what's the question?

I can tell you what I think the answer is...the government has failed at a retirement system (social security) and insurance system (medi-care/medic-aid) proves that they never do and never will be more efficient than the free market system. The President said it last night when he said part of the cost of his plan, up to 2/3 of it could be paid for by fixing those programs. Let's fix those, get the model right and then move on other more daunting issues. They can't even get the stimulus money spent let alone put in place a government run healthcare system. This is a strategy of the more I give you, the more you rely on me the more likely I am to stay in power.

The other thing I would say is this.

I will be long in my dirt nap and you younger guys will still be paying for this and if you think you can get ahead and live a decent lifestyle at upwards of 50% tax rates, well, I don't think you can and I don't think you should be burdened by that. You, not the government and those with less ambition, should keep the benefits of your efforts.

Good luck with these deficits.

 

[Blood on Blood]

Izzy - based on track record of our Govt decision-making, their determining the type of treatment received, amount of money they will determine will be allocated to each type of illness, and the subpar health in other socialized healthcare nations.

Per the illegals / illegitimate poor, the current and proposed solutions do not address.

State your opinion and vote.

 

[blck10th]

stand in line drop ur pants and grab your ankles and hold on for the ride

 

[Zack]

If you have 20 minutes, this is worth watching:
http://www.youtube.com/user/StevenCrowder

 

[FirstWorldProblems]

Fuck that, you can get insurance for $100/month if you don't have medical benefits. That's not that bad. Pay for it your self or you don't get it, that is how EVERYTHING should operate, no more handouts.

 

[skyhighsd]

We are screwed, Dave you hit it on the head other than

*Its all about who you know when it comes to service


Next thing you will know we will be part of Canada

 

[skyhighsd]

Fuck that, you can get insurance for $100/month if you don't have medical benefits. That's not that bad. Pay for it your self or you don't get it, that is how EVERYTHING should operate, no more handouts.

What about the childern!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



















^^^^^that was joke

 

[FirstWorldProblems]

Tell the no income losers to stop having kids. it's not that hard to NOT get a chick pregnant. Giving them extra $ for each child like your welfare system isn't exactly sending the right message.

 

[innrkid]

If you have not contacted your representatives on this.....even if you wildly support it....when the bill comes due you can't complain.

Even better yet, in 2012 work to make a difference. We need balance in Washington.

 

[ChromeCobra]

Doesn't affect me.

 

[nytebyte]

What about the childern!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Pretty soon they'll be a law prohibiting any privately insured person to be within 5 miles of a school or park.

The answer is easy. Government run ANYTHING is a bad idea and will only make problems infinitely worse. Since when has the government EVER been able to run a program correctly?

 

[Ear Rak]

Lets burn this mother fucker down.

 

[Flyn]

I am reserving my opinion pending more info and seeing it in action. Health care for everyone is a morally correct idea but I don't have a lot of confidence in our government, insurance companies or the health care industry.

 

[DSG03COBRA]

I am reserving my opinion pending more info and seeing it in action.

At that point it'll be too late...

I agree that this is a really bad idea. Like mentioned, it is NOT too expensive for people to get their own health insurance, even for family vs. individual. I have many friends who have been on COBRA and then off onto their own plans for one reason or another and all of them have said that it's really not too bad and that the media has scared people into thinking it'll cost them $1k/month to insure your family.

In addition, try talking to some people in other countries that have socialized healthcare. I go to Canada for work quite a bit and talking to the cab drivers and others up there, they have nothing but bad things to say about having that kind of economy. Sub-par services, long waits, lack of running tests b/c the Dr's will get paid based on the number of patients they treat, lack of quality Dr's since there is no motivation (ie. better Dr's get more $$$) to do well in the medical field, de-prioritization of treating people since the Dr's get paid the same for treating someone with a scratch as they do someone walking in dieing from cancer. The list goes on and people need to realize that this is NOT what we want.

Lastly I really don't think it's fair that we make people making more than $250k pay for the bulk of this proposed plan. Those kinds of people have worked hard to get where they are, have made sacrifices in their lives to get there and now they are going to be penalized for it! That's absolute bullshit! And if people actually believe that their taxes won't increase with this kind of plan, I've got some oceanfront property in Illinois to sell you...

First thing we need to do is stop the free healthcare for illegals and see how much money that will actually save everyone! Insurance should be less since hospitals don't need to charge as much since they don't need to make up for the free care they just provided. Quality of care should increase since the Dr's aren't wasting their time on so many deadbeat patients. Prescriptions should decrease since again there aren't as many people getting them for free... I think THAT is where we should start and then take a look at a "clean" system and determine what we need to do next...

 

[Pressure Ratio]

People who think you can get quality insurance on your own is nuts. Or makes a ton of money and the payments are no big deal. I feel sorry for people who do not make much and have to pay the same amount. Again the lower class has it harder. And the rates are rising all the time.

I heard a proposal would be cut out income tax. Then charge a 15-40% tax on purchases. Now anyone who busy anything is paying into the health care system. If you really think about this it is a very viable option. France and other countries use this system. Illegals will get health care no matter what. No one will stop that from happening. At least this way if they buy any thing it goes towards the fund. Canada has many Americans using their health care. Seems to be ok with them. Obviously it is not a huge burden to the system. Or maybe greed is not as bad as it is here in the US. lol

How the health care is structured will dictate how good the health care is. If the industry can make a lot of money things will not change much. If the government will not pay well I can see it getting worse. Again there are a lot of details to work out with the proposals. Will be interesting to see where it goes and ends up.

 

[DSG03COBRA]

I heard a proposal would be cut out income tax. Then charge a 15-40% tax on purchases. Now anyone who busy anything is paying into the health care system. If you really think about this it is a very viable option. .

See how quickly the retail industry crumbles if that is put into place... Image an extra 15% (low end of that spectrum...) tax when buying a vehicle... They think the auto industry is in trouble right now, see what that does to it.

 

[VenomousDSG]

Any plan that Obama has helped come up with I'm completely against...

I like N20GT's comments!

 

[Pressure Ratio]

See how quickly the retail industry crumbles if that is put into place... Image an extra 15% (low end of that spectrum...) tax when buying a vehicle... They think the auto industry is in trouble right now, see what that does to it.

I am not sure of details. I think they were talking about smaller purchases not necessarily cars, house and other large purchases. And it may be a floating scale of some sort. Maybe a gallon of milk may be 35% but a car would only be an additional 2% on top of the sales tax. Just throwing out numbers as an example. What I read was not very specific. And I have not seen what other countries charge on different items. I know Canada and others have GST "Goods & Service Tax".

And do not forget that implementing this would mean dropping income tax. What do you pay in income tax? See what I mean?

Again, This is only one proposal. And not many specifics given. So the details will be what make or break some thing like this VIS tax.

 

[DSG03COBRA]

And do not forget that implementing this would mean dropping income tax. What do you pay in income tax? See what I mean?

That's definitely good in theory, however I don't think our income tax would be dropped at all. In fact, if the gov't is going to be funding and paying for healthcare they're going to have to find the money elsewhere which means in yours and my pockets... It's proposed that people making more than $250k/year will take the biggest burden of these costs, but I really don't see any way of doing this without raising EVERYONE's taxes. Look at the countries that DO have government run healthcare and stuff... they pay a LOT higher income taxes. I have co-workers in Finland that pay 60% income tax b/c the gov't takes care of their healthcare, education, retirement, etc. The more stuff the gov't runs, the more money they'll need to do it...

 

[Pressure Ratio]

That's definitely good in theory, however I don't think our income tax would be dropped at all. In fact, if the gov't is going to be funding and paying for healthcare they're going to have to find the money elsewhere which means in yours and my pockets... It's proposed that people making more than $250k/year will take the biggest burden of these costs, but I really don't see any way of doing this without raising EVERYONE's taxes. Look at the countries that DO have government run healthcare and stuff... they pay a LOT higher income taxes. I have co-workers in Finland that pay 60% income tax b/c the gov't takes care of their healthcare, education, retirement, etc. The more stuff the gov't runs, the more money they'll need to do it...

The people who make $250K or more already pay more than some one that makes $50K. That is they way it is set up and I do not see it changing.

You are correct the money needs to come from us. I am not denying that. But they way it is done MAY make everyone contribute. Right now a baby of a person with out a job is being helped now already. Because the parent is not working and does not have insurance we are already paying for the medical. Now, If that parent buys products he pays into the health care fund. The baby needs diapers, formula, etc to sustain life. Now that product that is taxed. Correct? So the baby/family is helping pay into the fund.

Now person A. who makes $250K a year and person B. who makes $50K. That person who makes $250K is already taxed differently than the person who makes $50. A lot more. Now if you take away income tax all together now person A. has better control of his money. If he doesn't buy expensive or things that have a large percentage of tax he saves money. On the flip side he spends like he does before he still may end up better off than the income tax he used to be charged. But is houses over $500K are taxed higher than house costing less again can pay more into the system as before. Maybe more. Until they have a proposal we will know know exactly who pays what But I would bet person A. will no doubt pay more into the fund than person B. He spends more than person B. I don't think that will ever change.

A ton of info would have to go into the whole program. More than you and I will ever really understand. haha But I am interested to see what happens.

*BTW* This may sound funny or all over the place. I am busy at work and typing this too. HAHA

 

[DSG03COBRA]

The people who make $250K or more already pay more than some one that makes $50K. That is they way it is set up and I do not see it changing.

You are correct the money needs to come from us. I am not denying that. But they way it is done MAY make everyone contribute. Right now a baby of a person with out a job is being helped now already. Because the parent is not working and does not have insurance we are already paying for the medical. Now, If that parent buys products he pays into the health care fund. The baby needs diapers, formula, etc to sustain life. Now that product that is taxed. Correct? So the baby/family is helping pay into the fund.

Now person A. who makes $250K a year and person B. who makes $50K. That person who makes $250K is already taxed differently than the person who makes $50. A lot more. Now if you take away income tax all together now person A. has better control of his money. If he doesn't buy expensive or things that have a large percentage of tax he saves money. On the flip side he spends like he does before he still may end up better off than the income tax he used to be charged. But is houses over $500K are taxed higher than house costing less again can pay more into the system as before. Maybe more. Until they have a proposal we will know know exactly who pays what But I would bet person A. will no doubt pay more into the fund than person B. He spends more than person B. I don't think that will ever change.

A ton of info would have to go into the whole program. More than you and I will ever really understand. haha But I am interested to see what happens.

*BTW* This may sound funny or all over the place. I am busy at work and typing this too. HAHA

Again though, I don't think our income tax would be decreased at all, but rather increased. This healthcare portion would have to be in addition to what we are paying for now. And if any type of "luxury" item has it's tax increased, I guarantee they will see at least double that increase in a drop in sales (ie. raise the tax by 5%, you'll see at least 10% less sales) which then means there is more money that needs to come from somewhere. In addition, the gov't is going to assume that you no longer need to pay for your private healthcare insurance, so you've got some extra "healthcare money" in your paycheck that can go towards the gov't run healthcare.

I think one of the biggest issue with this proposal is that it's being pushed through as quickly as possible before people have any chance to actually see/assess the details of what impact this will actually have on most American's, both financially AND medically...

 

[Pressure Ratio]

I actually agree with you. But I would be surprised if it passed with just raising every thing. I think it will have to be made to look like everyone is getting some releif some where. Shadow games will be played. lol

I think one of the biggest issue with this proposal is that it's being pushed through as quickly as possible before people have any chance to actually see/assess the details of what impact this will actually have on most American's, both financially AND medically...

Agreed. The emergency late night sessions in the last 6-8 months that forced things down all out throats is embarrassing to the constitution and democracy. Yet who is to stop them? The whole financial bail out was one big joke. Hell criminal?

 

[jaykruger]

See how quickly the retail industry crumbles if that is put into place... Image an extra 15% (low end of that spectrum...) tax when buying a vehicle... They think the auto industry is in trouble right now, see what that does to it.

But if you took away the income tax you would have 30% extra on your paycheck, it would be a wash, or better