Travel Hacking with your host: Mike K

[Mike K]

I just learned this last night and thought it would be interesting to share. When people think first class they generally think this:

But in most domestic flights, this is what you really get:

A larger seat, more leg room and free booze for a 500% premium in fair. Not a great value proposition. The nicer cabins are reserved for long haul, transcontinental, flights and generally the larger planes like the 787 and 747.

I've heard over the years that airlines have to re-locate those larger planes to better position them for transcontinental routes and because of that, they occasionally find themselves on domestic routes. So I did some more poking and discovered that while American generally flies the 737 on domestic first class flights, they fly one 787-8 on their LA - Chicago route every day. The cost is no more but you're getting a muuuuuch nicer product in the form of a truly private seat, a walk-up bar and if you're a plane nerd like me, you're flying in a 787 versus a 737. This applies to economy as well I would think as generally all classes of service are nicer on overseas flights. So if you can find a domestic flight with a long haul plane like a 787 or 747 it might be worth taking it. And before anyone goes down the Mike K bragging road... a) purchased this on points and b) this was a $325 ticket without points. So not really living large here.

Walk up bar with stuff:

Click to read more...

 

[Yaj Yak]

i dont get the hack

 

[jason05gt]

i dont get the hack

Searching the plane type and selecting a plane used for international. There's a handful of routes domestically where the 787 flies. I've looked on AA before as I've wanted to ride on the 787.

 

[CMNTMXR57]

I always look up plane type (or have the wife) when we're flying. However, in any Chicago to L.A. trips finding anything other than a 757 or A320, is hard.

 

[Kaeghl]

I was part of the O'hare renovation that let those 787s land and take off from Ohare.

 

[Lord Tin Foilhat]

Like a boss

 

[boostedguy05]

Picks of you eating a 1st class bannana or it's all a lie!

 

[jason05gt]

I always look up plane type (or have the wife) when we're flying. However, in any Chicago to L.A. trips finding anything other than a 757 or A320, is hard.

737-700 or 800 are very common also. Southwest flies all over California non-stop. SWA has the new 737 MAX coming on board too this fall.

 

[CMNTMXR57]

Isn't all of Southwest's fleet 737's?

 

[FESTER665]

If I ever flew overseas or to Hawaii I would have to have one of those seats.. Can only imagine the price though so I don't travel.

 

[jason05gt]

Isn't all of Southwest's fleet 737's?

Yes, but AA and United have a large fleet of 737's. Every time I fly from ORD to BOS on AA, I've been on a 737 and many of them were the newer 800 series.

 

[sickmint79]

how many points was that? i'm surprised at both 1. points availability and 2. the first class fare being $325.

i'm not sure which surprises me more actually. how close in were you to the flight?

i haven't found a good use or redemption of my AA miles for some time, even though i've tried. i'd trade them straight up for united airline miles all day long too, i get a lot more use out of them. AA is the fattest pile of miles i'm sitting on.

 

[Chet Donnelly]

Those actually don't look that great for first class. Are you sure that isn't business class?

I fly first when traveling for work, and have usually been on 777's or 747's and the seats have been much larger than what you posted. Like below:

 

[Mike K]

They don't really look worse than what you posted; just different.

how many points was that? i'm surprised at both 1. points availability and 2. the first class fare being $325.

i'm not sure which surprises me more actually. how close in were you to the flight?

i haven't found a good use or redemption of my AA miles for some time, even though i've tried. i'd trade them straight up for united airline miles all day long too, i get a lot more use out of them. AA is the fattest pile of miles i'm sitting on.

AMEX points, so I kind of cheated. But they were 25k on American's website which is still great. This is an October 2nd flight.

 

[sickmint79]

Those actually don't look that great for first class. Are you sure that isn't business class?

I fly first when traveling for work, and have usually been on 777's or 747's and the seats have been much larger than what you posted. Like below:

unless it's way different (like suites) usually the seats in first and business are the same, there's just less of them. first will also maybe get like a 6 course vs. 5 course meal. i've done it a few times but first rarely/if ever seems worth the extra spend/points above business. that being said some airlines (united) pack people in so if you're window you can be stepping over someone sleeping to go to the bathroom. not big enough a deal to get me to spend more of dem points though.

AMEX points, so I kind of cheated. But they were 25k on American's website which is still great. This is an October 2nd flight.

LAX-ORD 10/2 Monday
AA 2609 6:25pm-12:28am (737) $99 $340
AA 2576 5:20pm-11:20pm (787) $129 $340

am i crazy or are these super cheap anyway for this route?

economy AA is 12.5k - however you can't do it direct. first options are alaskan codeshares through portland. that's the best option of a bunch that quickly get quite stupid looking.

this is my biggest annoyance with AA now, like the cash flight is only $99 for 2609 - it's a very bad redemption from the consumer side yet they still don't make any inventory available for it? dafuq? you can choose economy any time and get any seat on any flight for 20k.

the plane has 'business first' or whatever, it's 1 class. for whatever reason AA points search has a first too. looking at the calendar for business saver it's 25k. for business any time the cost is mostly 45k some 55k some days 75k.

the 25k options are all the original 12.5k econ ones ie. domestic first class with stops that go from tolerable to stupid. i see your flight under the any time.

so your flight is
econ 20k/$99 - redemption value 0.495 cents per mile
biz first 45k/$340 - redemption value 0.756 cents per mile

the points guy 2017 july valuations https://thepointsguy.com/2017/07/july-2017-monthly-valuations/
have AA at 1.4 cents per mile

i try to get 2-5 cpm, find < 1 to be not worth doing and would pay cash.

AA's prices/routing seem completely moronic. the prices don't change for premium members, and i am skeptical availability does either for reward redemptions on AA. so even if you were top level AA these would be your shit choices.

tpg values amex at 1.9 cpm. if you spent 25k that's 1.36 cpm. plus hey, 787 and fancy seats, not bad.

of course if you just sit on the points you never get any value out of them either, so arguably not the best redemption is better than none at all.

shamefully as a travel hax0r, i have not actually put any points acquisition efforts in since 2015. but because AA redemptions are just not really all that sexy, even though i have used some here and there, i'm still sitting on a pile of 1.25m

 

[jason05gt]

Those actually don't look that great for first class. Are you sure that isn't business class?

I fly first when traveling for work, and have usually been on 777's or 747's and the seats have been much larger than what you posted. Like below:

Your company puts you up in first class? Assuming it's international.

 

[Chet Donnelly]

unless it's way different (like suites) usually the seats in first and business are the same, there's just less of them. first will also maybe get like a 6 course vs. 5 course meal. i've done it a few times but first rarely/if ever seems worth the extra spend/points above business.

first class seats are definitely wider and offer wider leg room. You can even see in the pics Mike posted it tapers away at your leg room.

I've sat in both many times, and there is definitely a difference.

Your company puts you up in first class? Assuming it's international.

We can book business, but we are offered free upgrades to first more than half the time. And yes, international.

 

[Mike K]

first class seats are definitely wider and offer wider leg room. You can even see in the pics Mike posted it tapers away at your leg room.

I've sat in both many times, and there is definitely a difference.

I think what he's saying is that you're looking at first in my photos. It's just different. The 787-8 is a two class airplane. There's no business class, just first and coach.

The picture you posted looks like a wider seat which doesn't make sense to me since there's not really any space constraints.

LAX-ORD 10/2 Monday
AA 2609 6:25pm-12:28am (737) $99 $340
AA 2576 5:20pm-11:20pm (787) $129 $340

am i crazy or are these super cheap anyway for this route?

The first class seats are absurdly cheap. You generally never get first for that little, at least in my experience.

economy AA is 12.5k - however you can't do it direct. first options are alaskan codeshares through portland. that's the best option of a bunch that quickly get quite stupid looking.

this is my biggest annoyance with AA now, like the cash flight is only $99 for 2609 - it's a very bad redemption from the consumer side yet they still don't make any inventory available for it? dafuq? you can choose economy any time and get any seat on any flight for 20k.

the plane has 'business first' or whatever, it's 1 class. for whatever reason AA points search has a first too. looking at the calendar for business saver it's 25k. for business any time the cost is mostly 45k some 55k some days 75k.

Yeah I noticed that. American's redemption program kind of blows. I'm a fan of Virgin's or Southwest's where you can pretty much redeem at any time with the amount of points correlating to the cash price of the fair. You used to be able to get great deals booking AA flights with Avios points but that seems to have gone away. Flights that used to cost 7500 points are now 20,000 and they have the same terrible availability.

[/quote]so your flight is
econ 20k/$99 - redemption value 0.495 cents per mile
biz first 45k/$340 - redemption value 0.756 cents per mile

the points guy 2017 july valuations https://thepointsguy.com/2017/07/july-2017-monthly-valuations/
have AA at 1.4 cents per mile

i try to get 2-5 cpm, find < 1 to be not worth doing and would pay cash. [/quote]

Yeah, never mind. I just took a look and it looks like I put it on my INK card and used the few points I had in that account to pay down the balance. So I think it was $200 out of pocket and like 8,000 points and INK doesn't transfer to anywhere I use so they're pretty useless to me anyhow.

shamefully as a travel hax0r, i have not actually put any points acquisition efforts in since 2015. but because AA redemptions are just not really all that sexy, even though i have used some here and there, i'm still sitting on a pile of 1.25m

I haven't done anything. I just dropped my Amex platinum to a green card because in my old age I can't justify the $550 annual fee, especially as they strip away features and replace them with crap like free GoGo wireless coupons.

The good news is I'd probably be able to sign up for a bunch of new cards without fear of them denying me for opening too many accounts.

 

[sickmint79]

first class seats are definitely wider and offer wider leg room. You can even see in the pics Mike posted it tapers away at your leg room.

I've sat in both many times, and there is definitely a difference.

i poked around at some configs and that does look right. i suppose it was close enough i never really noticed. not something i think is worth paying for though unless you really need that extra bit to be comfortable.

We can book business, but we are offered free upgrades to first more than half the time. And yes, international.

that's a really solid complimentary upgrade rate. what airline?

Yeah I noticed that. American's redemption program kind of blows. I'm a fan of Virgin's or Southwest's where you can pretty much redeem at any time with the amount of points correlating to the cash price of the fair. You used to be able to get great deals booking AA flights with Avios points but that seems to have gone away. Flights that used to cost 7500 points are now 20,000 and they have the same terrible availability.

i just used my first bit of sw points to book a trip for myself and a couple friends to cuba in december. i closed my amex and all the points went to avios and iberia. the sweet spots with avios certainly changed but there still seem to be some. you used to be able to ORD-DCA for 9000 round trip! i feel like AA's availability didn't used to be this bad. they got rid of some cool points things you used to be able to do, kinda gone downhill a lot from that standpoint over the last 5 years. you can still get some bonus flights out of united.

i don't really like the dynamic points/cash price thing as it seems to more often than not result in points that are worth less. it is a simpler system from the perspective of simply finding a flight and redeeming points for it though.

Yeah, never mind. I just took a look and it looks like I put it on my INK card and used the few points I had in that account to pay down the balance. So I think it was $200 out of pocket and like 8,000 points and INK doesn't transfer to anywhere I use so they're pretty useless to me anyhow.

i like chase UR a lot. because they are relatively easy to earn (esp with ink) and i can send them to united.

I haven't done anything. I just dropped my Amex platinum to a green card because in my old age I can't justify the $550 annual fee, especially as they strip away features and replace them with crap like free GoGo wireless coupons.

The good news is I'd probably be able to sign up for a bunch of new cards without fear of them denying me for opening too many accounts.

so, amex will only let you get a bonus once for a personal card product. so you can get it for a plat and mercedes plat but not the original plat again after that. at least the first year fee you can claw most of it back anyway.

chase won't give you a new card if you've opened 5 personal within the last 24 months. which is why i didn't get that 100k sapphire reserve card. waiting for that offer to come back...

 

[Rent Free]

Fuck that i fly Kuwait to Afghanistan via C5 or C17 and fly big fob to little fob on CH47 Chinooks or Blackhawks

there you can have your 787s......

 

[Chet Donnelly]

i poked around at some configs and that does look right. i suppose it was close enough i never really noticed. not something i think is worth paying for though unless you really need that extra bit to be comfortable.



that's a really solid complimentary upgrade rate. what airline?.

United. 2 of the 4 companies I've worked for have gotten that deal.

 

[sickmint79]

that's pretty solid. i'm under the impression it happens far less under AA, even if you have top status.

 

[torquelover]

Ugh, I'm gonna have a hard time flying commercial after flying private on mostly Citation Xs and Bravos for the last few years.

How is the 787 compared to the 737/747/A320 in terms of NVH and flight stability?

 

[Mike K]

I've never flown a 787. Largest I've been in is a 777 to Hawaii and whatever the old school wide body is. Either a 767 or 757. That was LOUD. I find A320's to be my favorite and I like watching all the nervous flyers freak out of the sound of the hydraulic system balancing during taxi-ing.

What I'd really love is to grab a flight on a 747 but I just don't see anything domestic. And what I'd really really love is to grab a first class fare on a 747. A 787 or A380 is a close 2nd in terms of coolness though.

 

[sickmint79]

going to hawaii, even though it's far, they configure the planes as domestic first class as well since it is primarily leisure travels.

i've been on a 787, qatar's from joburg to doha. https://www.igobyplane.com/2015/03/...87-8-788-business-class-johannesburg-to-doha/

it wasn't as cool as i thought it would be. was on a thai 747 recently that was cool, although i think i've liked the a380 the most.

my first 747 was first class on british airways. i was in the nose and it was my first time flying first class. now i fly business because it's all you need really, and i avoid LHR because england tacks on unavoidable fuel surcharges. so some newbie flight hax0r mistakes there. in any case, it was also one of my most memorable flights, not only because it was the first, but because it's the one where they made the biggest deal out of me and the only flight i've been on where they just said eat all you want, whenever you want. and i totally did, i tried almost everything on the menu, and it was delicious.