Another Day, another LEO shoots a dog - Heartbreaking

cacicgtp7

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Nov 9, 2008
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I see these a lot on social media and normally don't post but this one is especially sad - mostly because I tried to put myself in their shoes with my dog, and how I would react. Lots of media coverage on this in NJ and the gofundme site is doing really well (I donated myself b/c I'm a chump).

Story below:

Wyckoff family heartbroken after cop fatally shoots dog [video] - News - NorthJersey.com

Otto Dog Shot, Killed By Wyckoff Cop Investigating Burglary Report « CBS New York



His FB post (and gofundme site):

https://www.facebook.com/Justiceforotto/posts/1596366810633062



ughhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
 

Lord Tin Foilhat

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The entire thing in this I don't really understand is if I go into someone's yard and shoot their dog, I'd be arrested, sued... the works. Why is this any different? Because it was an accident?

What if he accidentally killed a 5 year old?

He could of walked out the fence and been fine. This shit is ridiculous. Not even an accident IMO.

Then they LIE and try to hide evidence. WTF IS WRONG WITH POLICE?
 

rocket5979

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Nov 15, 2005
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He could of walked out the fence and been fine.



How do you know this? Why do you think it would have been so easy for the officer to withdraw from the yard unharmed? Are you also one of those folks that believes that he had plenty of time to draw his taser and use less-lethal too?

I want everybody held accountable for their actions as much as the next guy, but there are more facts that are needed in order to accurately determine if that officer was at fault. Perhaps he was, and if so, then I hope he is given harsh consequences. However, from the information I have heard, which isn't much, I could just as easily come up with a series of events that could have ended with the officer using justified deadly force against the dog as you could come up with ways to crucify him. The underlying point is that neither you nor I have enough information to praise or convict the officer for his actions.

Since you seem to advocate that the guy should have done something different, what do you want the officer to do? What if he was too far inside of the yard to retreat to a safe position before the dog had advanced on him enough to pose a significant threat? What's do you think the alternative is? Walk around the perimeter of a suspected burglary in progress, thus giving tactical advantage to those inside who could be looking out? Nope. What about entering the fence with his taser drawn instead of sidearm? Well, ever hear the adage, "Don't go to a gunfight with a knife!"? Well the same applies to using a taser against someone who may be armed with a gun. You go into those situations prepared for the worst while hoping for the best. If you reverse your thinking, you tend to get dead real quick; or get your buddies killed.
 

rocket5979

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Nov 15, 2005
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The entire thing I don't really understand is if I go into someone's yard and shoot their dog, I'd be arrested, sued... the works. Why is this any different? Because it was an accident?

What if he accidentally killed a 5 year old?


The difference is that the officer was in the middle of performing his legally appointed duty; albeit at the wrong house through circumstances of miscommunication probably not under his control. You just randomly walking into someones yard is quite different.

Yeah, 5 year old human-beings don't pose as much a threat as a 5 year old German shepherd! Not even a comparable analogy.
 

Lord Tin Foilhat

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How do you know this? Why do you think it would have been so easy for the officer to withdraw from the yard unharmed? Are you also one of those folks that believes that he had plenty of time to draw his taser and use less-lethal too?

I want everybody held accountable for their actions as much as the next guy, but there are more facts that are needed in order to accurately determine if that officer was at fault. Perhaps he was, and if so, then I hope he is given harsh consequences. However, from the information I have heard, which isn't much, I could just as easily come up with a series of events that could have ended with the officer using justified deadly force against the dog as you could come up with ways to crucify him. The underlying point is that neither you nor I have enough information to praise or convict the officer for his actions.

Since you seem to advocate that the guy should have done something different, what do you want the officer to do? What if he was too far inside of the yard to retreat to a safe position before the dog had advanced on him enough to pose a significant threat? What's do you think the alternative is? Walk around the perimeter of a suspected burglary in progress, thus giving tactical advantage to those inside who could be looking out? Nope. What about entering the fence with his taser drawn instead of sidearm? Well, ever hear the adage, "Don't go to a gunfight with a knife!"? Well the same applies to using a taser against someone who may be armed with a gun. You go into those situations prepared for the worst while hoping for the best. If you reverse your thinking, you tend to get dead real quick; or get your buddies killed.

So what about the apparent cover up done by the department? What about the fact the cop lied about the situation and also lied about being able to " see the open window" which "gave him the reason to enter the yard"? Or how about the fact that it was a burglary investigation WITH the owners of the house next door(the correct address) who called and REQUESTED the officer. This wasnt a random neighbor saying they saw someone suspicious and to investigate....

The problem i have is this could be 100% avoidable, but also the fact that instead of admitting to the mistake, they manufacturer some ridiculous story to justify what the officer did. The officer said the dog bit his shoe....so where's the bite marks on the shoe? Bite marks just don't disappear...especially from a german shepard if he was truly "attacking" and "putting his life in danger". BULLSHIT.

The story from the police is so full of shit, you need a pooper scooper just to read it.
 

Lord Tin Foilhat

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Also here's the full story from the OP not the news including the police story, witness accounts and photos


**PRESS STATEMENT**

CONCERNING THE DISHONESTY OF THE WYCKOFF POLICE
IN REGARDS TO THE KILLING OF OUR DOG OTTO

05/01/2015

We are issuing this statement as a means of collecting the evidence we’ve assembled relating to the killing of our pet German Shepard, Otto, on 04/29/2015. We’d like to make it clear that while it is devastating to have lost our beloved pet, and this tragedy was obviously completely avoidable, an excessive use of force, and a dangerously negligent act on the behalf of the Officer - we would have found satisfaction in an apology, and for the Wyckoff Police to have told the truth surrounding the circumstances that caused this disaster. Unfortunately, the Wyckoff Police have defended the actions of the officer, assumed no responsibility, conducted no official investigation, and have consistently contradicted the reports of the two eye-witness neighbors, as well as the physical evidence at the scene. Very clearly, they are not being truthful, nor accepting liability for an extreme act of negligence.

**WHAT THE POLICE SAY**

Though the Wyckoff Police Department has not yet released the official police report, we spoke to the police chief on the afternoon of 05/01/2015, and asked if he was sticking to the details that he made public through the media. He confidently confirmed that the details of the police report would be consistent with the statements he made to the media on 04/30/2015.

We are told that while dispatch issued a call to 621 Lawlins Rd., the officer verbally confirmed the incorrect address, stating “622” over the radio. He was not corrected. The police maintain that the officer then proceeded down the driveway to the front door of 622 Lawlins Rd., the Vukobratovic residence. He then supposedly knocked loudly, multiple times - finding no one home, he entered the back yard through the unlocked gate, and proceeded into the yard, around the landscaping, to a the patio area where he discovered an open window. According to the police, the officer considered the window a possible point of entry for what he believed to be a burglary in progress, and drew his weapon. It was at this time that Otto, “lunged” at the officer through the open window, attacking his boot. The officer maintains that the dog “had him” by the boot, and considered his life to be in danger, which was reason for him to fire four rounds at the dog - two of which missed, the other two hit Otto in his back and side.

After the incident, Animal Control arrived to take Otto to the hospital. No investigation was made on the actual crime scene. The officers who arrived on the scene scoured the yard looking for the casings and bullets from the missed shots. No report was made regarding these ballistics, nor were any photographs taken of the scene. The Wyckoff Police department maintains that the use of force was completely justified, as the dog was violently attacking the Officer, putting his life at risk. Despite this, the officer sustained no injuries. The officer remains in active duty.

**WHAT WITNESSES SAY**

Two adult residents and a child were home mid-afternoon on 04/29/2015. Having just had their windows professionally cleaned, the blinds in their home were open on every window. One of the residents was inspecting the work done on the windows and noticed some unusual damage to one of them, indicating a potential point of entry for what could be a future burglary incident. He called his cleaning service, and they denied causing the damage. Not wanting to create an emergency situation, especially with a child in the home, the resident drove to the Wyckoff Police Department to file an official report regarding the damage. He spoke to an officer at the front desk, and was told a patrolman would be dispatched to his home within the hour.

A short time later, a patrol car pulled onto the street in front of 622 Lawlins Rd., and both residents of 621 Lawlins Rd. approached the front of the house - one at the window, one at the door. They observed the officer exit the vehicle and proceed down the driveway of 622 Lawlins Rd. There were no cars parked in the driveway of 622 Lawlins Rd., so the residents of 621 had an unobscured vantage point. Moments later, the officer was observed entering the backyard through the gate. Within seconds, one resident observed Otto coming around the corner of the house, barking at the officer. The officer was then observed taking a “standard shooting position” and firing multiple times at the dog. The resident observed dirt being kicked into the air from at least one of the shots being fired into the ground. Upon hearing gunshots, one resident left the house, yelling at the officer for being at the wrong address, questioning what he was doing. He raised his hands to his head as a gesture of disbelief regarding his own actions.

**EVIDENCE**

The officer claims he entered the property, came around the side of the house, and observed an open window that he believed was a possible point of entry in relation to this “burglary” call. While inspecting the window, Otto lunged from the window, startling the officer, at which point he fired four times at the dog. This is easily disproven. The eyewitness statements are extremely clear about being able to observe the officer firing at the dog near the gate, nowhere near any open window he could have been alerted to.

On Thursday, 04/30/2015 Zana Vukobratovic discovered a bullet casing laying in plain sight on the grass near the gate to their backyard. Officers were called to investigate the casing, but made no photograph of its location, handled it without gloves, and did not thoroughly document the scene.

On Friday, 05/01/2015, while walking in the yard, Igor and Chris (his friend), discovered a bullet embedded in the dirt, approximately 18 feet from the entrance to the backyard. The location of this bullet is supported by the statement of the resident at 621 Lawlins Rd. that saw dirt kicked into the air from one of the shots. Realizing that there could very easily be additional evidence still at the scene, Igor and Chris combed the area, and discovered a bullet casing resting in the leaves, mere inches from the casing recovered on Thursday 04/30/2015.

The photo below demonstrates the likely position of the officer at the time of the shooting based on the location of these three pieces of ballistics:

http://i.imgur.com/iYVJOl9.jpg

As you can see from the below photograph, while standing in this position, the officer would have not had a view of the rear patio area where the open window was supposedly observed:

http://i.imgur.com/xre81Zv.jpg

Here you can see how close the bullet in the dirt was found in relation to the entrance to the backyard. The officer very obviously opened fire within the first few feet of the backyard:

http://i.imgur.com/BKgHuB5.jpg

Below is the undisturbed bullet casing No. 2 that was found on Friday morning, 05/01/2015:

http://i.imgur.com/blcnBxa.jpg

**MOVING FORWARD**

At the time of issuing this statement, we have not alerted the Wyckoff Police Department to the discovery of Casing No. 2, or the stray bullet. Quite frankly, we are concerned with their integrity, being that police chief does not seem interested in an official investigation. We have sought legal counsel in regards to charges that may be brought against the Wyckoff Police Department, and have determined that we will be pursuing them for damages, which in accordance to New Jersey law, is limited to the cost of Otto himself, and expenses related to this tragedy. Despite their extreme negligence, excessive use of force, discharging of a firearm in a residential neighborhood, and fabricated police report, the officer will only be held accountable by the department itself. If there is enough support from the community, we may be able to drive the point home that we do not tolerate this kind of irresponsibility on our local police force - nor do we tolerate the fabrication of details in order to protect a wildly negligent officer responsible for needlessly murdering a family pet in its own backyard. It is up to us to hold them accountable.

--------

**Support:**

- Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/Justiceforotto

- [Petition (has some typos, Igor didn't make this)](https://www.change.org/p/wyckoff-nj...b-xs-share_petition-reason_msg&fb_ref=Default)
 

Lord Tin Foilhat

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Rocket is busy writing an essay to disclaim all evidence... :rofl: :s00ls:

The resident observed dirt being kicked into the air from at least one of the shots being fired into the ground. Upon hearing gunshots, one resident left the house, yelling at the officer for being at the wrong address, questioning what he was doing. He raised his hands to his head as a gesture of disbelief regarding his own actions.

Cop be all like :dunno:
 

rocket5979

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Nov 15, 2005
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So what about the apparent cover up done by the department? What about the fact the cop lied about the situation and also lied about being able to " see the open window" which "gave him the reason to enter the yard"? Or how about the fact that it was a burglary investigation WITH the owners of the house next door(the correct address) who called and REQUESTED the officer. This wasnt a random neighbor saying they saw someone suspicious and to investigate....

The problem i have is this could be 100% avoidable, but also the fact that instead of admitting to the mistake, they manufacturer some ridiculous story to justify what the officer did. The officer said the dog bit his shoe....so where's the bite marks on the shoe? Bite marks just don't disappear...especially from a german shepard if he was truly "attacking" and "putting his life in danger". BULLSHIT.

The story from the police is so full of shit, you need a pooper scooper just to read it.




I am not discussing that stuff because it is all just a bunch of bullshit speculation until it goes to court and is proven to be factual or false. Don't muddle the discussion with more crap. I am discussing what are an officer's options when they find themselves in the scenario where they are in a yard and a dog is coming at them through an open window of the home that they are currently investigating for a possible burglary in progress.

Please tell me, given the information that the officer had at the time of the shooting, what made this situation "100% avoidable" when it comes to analyzing the actions he took. Please be clear and concise.
 

Lord Tin Foilhat

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I am not discussing that stuff because it is all just a bunch of bullshit speculation until it goes to court and is proven to be factual or false. Don't muddle the discussion with more crap. I am discussing what are an officer's options when they find themselves in the scenario where they are in a yard and a dog is coming at them through an open window of the home that they are currently investigating for a possible burglary in progress.

Please tell me, given the information that the officer had at the time of the shooting, what made this situation "100% avoidable" when it comes to analyzing the actions he took. Please be clear and concise.

THERE WAS NO BURGLARY IN PROGRESS. I made it bigger for you so you can READ!

One of the residents was inspecting the work done on the windows and noticed some unusual damage to one of them, indicating a potential point of entry for what could be a future burglary incident. He called his cleaning service, and they denied causing the damage. Not wanting to create an emergency situation, especially with a child in the home, the resident drove to the Wyckoff Police Department to file an official report regarding the damage. He spoke to an officer at the front desk, and was told a patrolman would be dispatched to his home within the hour.
 

Chester Copperpot

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I think what gets me the most is that instead of being sympathetic and apologizing for an easily avoidable mistake, he doubles down on his pure bullshit that he was "attacked" by this horrible, terrible, ruthless machine who "gnawed" on his boot.

I can tell you without a shadow of a doubt that if a grown ass man can't subdue or fight off a grown dog, he shouldn't be a fucking cop. Period. From my personal experience I've pulled apart two large dogs who were fighting for alpha dominance in the house. None of this playful gnawing shit, going for each other's throat with laid back ears and hair standing up on their backs.

It's absolute horseshit and rocket, you know just as much as I do that while the family's take on this is pure speculation, so is the officer's. Yet we're expected to believe one (being the police) over the other?
 

rocket5979

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THERE WAS NO BURGLARY IN PROGRESS. I made it bigger for you so you can READ!



I understood that quite well the first time I read it. However, I also know that officers rarely receive the exact and FULL details of the phone call when they are dispatched to a scene. Sometimes they are just told that there is a possible burglary at such and such address, and to go investigate.

I swear, you guys think that these folks have oodles of time to get 100% of the details before going into a situation that is unfolding by the millisecond! You're damned if you do and damned if ya don't. Stand by and get every piece of info and you're likely to have arrived too late; sometimes to the detriment of other innocent people getting killed, etc. Get too hasty and arrive without sufficient intel and possibly handle the situation incorrectly.

There is no perfect solution! You get enough info so as to have the highest chance of making the correct judgement calls if something does go down, and hope said info is as accurate as possible! That's why being a cop or being a soldier (where my experience comes from) is such a shitty job! You go into situations that require you to have a 110% knowledge of what is unfolding, while only having about 60% of that required info. The cards are stacked against you from the get-go, and you have to make the most of it. It's fucking hard to get it right all of the time!


As for the casings found in that part of the yard. Rarely does a person who is getting attacked, stay in the same place, especially if they know there's a fence nearby that allows egress from the situation. What about the possibility of the cop running/walking back towards the fence away from the dog while firing his gun? I don't see anything in the story that precludes the possibility of that happening. Do you?

You may think that I am siding with the cops here, but I really am not. I just like to get all of the information before making presumptions about an individual's guilt or innocence. Hint: Watch 12 Angry Men. It may provide a perspective different than what you conclusion-jumpers are used to.
 

Chester Copperpot

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As for the casings found in that part of the yard. Rarely does a person who is getting attacked, stay in the same place, especially if they know there's a fence nearby that allows egress from the situation. What about the possibility of the cop running/walking back towards the fence away from the dog while firing his gun? I don't see anything in the story that precludes the possibility of that happening. Do you?.

So if he was moving back and firing, then the dog wasn't "gnawing" on the officer's shoe then? We were also told by the cop that the dog lunged at him through the window but why is there a casing at the entrance of the fence and not near any window, let alone the house if he WAS backing up? THAT'S what isn't adding up and further fueling the fire of people not taking the cop's bullshit as fact.
 

rocket5979

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Nov 15, 2005
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Common sense, confirming that he was at the right address, not trespassing into a gated back yard, etc.


If we are analyzing the officer's actions then it would be wise to look at the situation from his perspective. After all, it is pretty damned easy to judge a situation from the luxury of 20/20 hindsight, but not the reverse.

So, according to him, he was at the correct address. After all, he heard the dispatcher say what he thought was the correct address, repeated it back to the dispatcher and received no feedback or correction. So, the officer wasn't at fault for the wrong address, but dispatch was. So, that does rest on the shoulders of the department itself, but not the officer. Since we are talking about what the cop could have/have not done, that becomes a moot point.

It is not considered trespassing if he is investigating a burglary at what he understood to be the correct address, so according to the officer's perspective, he had the right to be there. Sure, one could make the claim that the burglary wasn't in progress because the home owner came to the department, but sometimes burglars come back to houses they just hit if they think they can get more stuff. So, it's better to act deliberately and with due diligence, rather than let himself be caught with his pants down and no weapon drawn.
 
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