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Old 01-03-2017, 01:50 PM   #1
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Default Errrbody's all like "Mike K, you crazy".

Who's crazy now?

https://electrek.co/2017/01/03/ford-new-electric-cars

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Ford is making a big announcement in electrification today. CEO Mark Field confirmed several new models will receive electric drivetrain options, including its flagship F-150 pickup truck that will double as an on-site generator. In 2015, Ford announced a $4.5 billion investment in electric vehicles in order to introduce 13 new models.

Today, it confirmed 7 of those 13 new models and the list will surprise a few: a new all-electric SUV with “at least” 300 miles of range, a hybrid F-150 and a hybrid Mustang, a Transit Custom plug-in hybrid and 2 new electric police vehicles.

If you were counting, that’s 6 vehicles. The 7th vehicle will be the “high volume” autonomous car that Ford plans to produce by 2021. Ford confirmed today the vehicle will be equipped with a hybrid drivetrain.

The CEO made the announcement at the company’s Flat Rock factory in Michigan, where the company is investing $700 million in an expansion to enable manufacturing of electric vehicles.

Fields commented during the announcement:

“As more and more consumers around the world become interested in electrified vehicles, Ford is committed to being a leader in providing consumers with a broad range of electrified vehicles, services and solutions that make people’s lives better. Our investments and expanding lineup reflect our view that global offerings of electrified vehicles will exceed gasoline-powered vehicles within the next 15 years.”

Most of the vehicles announced today are scheduled to hit the market toward the end of the decade and early in the next decade:

An all-new fully electric small SUV, coming by 2020, engineered to deliver an estimated range of at least 300 miles, to be built at the Flat Rock plant and sold in North America, Europe and Asia
A high-volume autonomous vehicle designed for commercial ride hailing or ride sharing, starting in North America. The hybrid vehicle will debut in 2021 and will be built at the Flat Rock plant
A hybrid version of the best-selling F-150 pickup available by 2020 and sold in North America and the Middle East. The F-150 Hybrid, built at Ford’s Dearborn Truck Plant, will offer powerful towing and payload capacity and operate as a mobile generator
A hybrid version of the iconic Mustang that will deliver V8 power and even more low-end torque. The Mustang Hybrid, built at the Flat Rock Plant, debuts in 2020 and will be available in the North America to start
A Transit Custom plug-in hybrid available in 2019 in Europe engineered to help reduce operating costs in even the most congested streets
Two new, pursuit-rated hybrid police vehicles. One of the two new hybrid police vehicles will be built in Chicago, and both will be upfitted with their police gear at Ford’s dedicated police vehicle modification center in Chicago
It looked like was Ford was falling behind in electrification over the past few years with not many vehicles on the roadmap, but today’s announcement give us a better idea of the company’s commitment to EVs. It’s a lot of hybrids, some plug-in hybrids, and one all-electric vehicle so far.
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Old 01-03-2017, 01:51 PM   #2
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Oh Mike K...

Mustang Hybrid is coming
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Old 01-03-2017, 01:56 PM   #3
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That's one car. This is seven as well as the CEO announcing that gas cars are dead and that Mike K was right. I forgot to post the headline. Talk about burying the lead:

Ford says electric vehicles will overtake gas in 15 years, announces all-electric 300-mile SUV, hybrid F-150, Mustang, and more
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Old 01-03-2017, 01:56 PM   #4
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I would be interested in a hybrid F150, as long as it doesn't cost $70k. I heard the German companies are also planning for hybrid/electric across the board for their vehicles.

We just picked up a Ford Fusion Energi based on the miles that I drive and that work has a charging port. The vehicle was stupid cheap for the titanium version. The tech is really nice and bouncing between electric and gas is hardly noticeable.
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Old 01-03-2017, 01:59 PM   #5
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike K View Post
That's one car. This is seven as well as the CEO announcing that gas cars are dead and that Mike K was right. I forgot to post the headline. Talk about burying the lead:

Ford says electric vehicles will overtake gas in 15 years, announces all-electric 300-mile SUV, hybrid F-150, Mustang, and more
That's a misleading headline, so good thing you didn't post it.

Seven of Ford's 13 new global electrified vehicles will be built in the next five years, including an F-150 Hybrid pick-up truck, Mustang Hybrid sports car and Transit Custom plug-in hybrid van


Hybrids still have gasoline engines.
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Old 01-03-2017, 02:01 PM   #6
 
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And I bet Fields is banking on the F-150 Hybrid selling a ton. So Mike K, I give you an incomplete
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Old 01-03-2017, 02:02 PM   #7
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oil is still too cheap, electric is still too cost prohibitive and the technology is still lacking.

definitely agree that most consumer vehicles are going to be hybrid in the 10-15yr range.
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Old 01-03-2017, 02:05 PM   #8
 
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Originally Posted by OffshoreDrilling View Post
oil is still too cheap, electric is still too cost prohibitive and the technology is still lacking.

definitely agree that most consumer vehicles are going to be hybrid in the 10-15yr range.
That and electric isn't there yet in my opinion. When you can pull in a parking spot or your garage to charge wirelessly AND quickly that will be the game changer. Right now it still takes a good amount of time to charge batteries and people still have that range anxiety perception.
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Old 01-03-2017, 02:06 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jason05gt View Post
That's a misleading headline, so good thing you didn't post it.

Seven of Ford's 13 new global electrified vehicles will be built in the next five years, including an F-150 Hybrid pick-up truck, Mustang Hybrid sports car and Transit Custom plug-in hybrid van


Hybrids still have gasoline engines.
In the interim you're going to see more hybrids. The immediate model offerings don't represent what Ford will offer 15 years from now. So his statement stands as it is and I don't think it's misleading.

Also in case nobody noticed, I was being a wise-ass.
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Old 01-03-2017, 02:11 PM   #10
 
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Going to take a lot more than 15 years for oil/gas to die...
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Old 01-03-2017, 02:12 PM   #11
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mook View Post
Thank you

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike K View Post
That's one car. This is seven as well as the CEO announcing that gas cars are dead and that Mike K was right. I forgot to post the headline. Talk about burying the lead:

Ford says electric vehicles will overtake gas in 15 years, announces all-electric 300-mile SUV, hybrid F-150, Mustang, and more
Why are you such an asshole to me?

You literally read less and listen less than my wife does.

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Old 01-03-2017, 02:15 PM   #12
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This all went swimmingly.
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Old 01-03-2017, 03:42 PM   #13
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We'll see what happens when the new administration gets its hands on CAFE.
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Old 01-03-2017, 03:59 PM   #14
 
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We'll see what happens when the new administration gets its hands on CAFE.
I'm sure it will have an impact, but so much of the CapEx has already been spent on meeting CAFE standards, the auto manufacturers aren't going to just full reverse course.
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Old 01-03-2017, 04:07 PM   #15
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We'll see what happens when the new administration gets its hands on CAFE.
I try to keep tabs on the industry as a whole and the consensus is that the door to electric energy has been opened and now it can't be shut. The cost of electric technologies (batteries, solar, etc) are decreasing at such a rapid pace while also increasing in efficiency that we're quickly approaching the point where these technologies will be the more efficient, more cost efficient option regardless of subsidies, etc.
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Old 01-03-2017, 04:24 PM   #16
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Don't listen to the industry man. Listen to random anons on the interwebs. They are the ones who know.
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Old 01-03-2017, 04:26 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike K View Post
I try to keep tabs on the industry as a whole and the consensus is that the door to electric energy has been opened and now it can't be shut. The cost of electric technologies (batteries, solar, etc) are decreasing at such a rapid pace while also increasing in efficiency that we're quickly approaching the point where these technologies will be the more efficient, more cost efficient option regardless of subsidies, etc.
I truly hope that's the case.
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Old 01-03-2017, 04:40 PM   #18
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Don't listen to the industry man. Listen to random anons on the interwebs. They are the ones who know.
Nah, it's just an unknown at this point. The US isn't the only factor in the electric game. It's globally important, too. But when you see how electric/hybrid sales fall when gas is cheap, you wonder what will happen when these cars are suddenly much more expensive. Especially the more-affordable mass-market ones.
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Old 01-03-2017, 04:47 PM   #19
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike K View Post
I try to keep tabs on the industry as a whole and the consensus is that the door to electric energy has been opened and now it can't be shut. The cost of electric technologies (batteries, solar, etc) are decreasing at such a rapid pace while also increasing in efficiency that we're quickly approaching the point where these technologies will be the more efficient, more cost efficient option regardless of subsidies, etc.
The $7,500 Federal tax credit is certainly helping certain MFG's and then there are State incentives, so if those fall off then I can see it hurting electric cars.

The company that develops a wireless and quick charging solution will win the electric race. Gasoline is convenient in that I pull into a gas station and within 5 minutes I have a full tank. That equivalent needs to occur with electric cars where you can charge quickly and easily.

Lastly, there are quite a few cool ICE technologies in the works such as camless engines and variable compression that will extend the life of gas engines.
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Old 01-03-2017, 04:54 PM   #20
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Hybrids, electrics, Tesla specifically, etc will all be starting to fade away very shortly. A major part of that nutswinging government administration backed industry will be exiting in 17 days, and that ill be the beginning of the end for this current fad.

On a side note, I'd like to punch Leonardo Dicaprio in the face and have a snack too.
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Old 01-03-2017, 05:24 PM   #21
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike K View Post
I try to keep tabs on the industry as a whole and the consensus is that the door to electric energy has been opened and now it can't be shut.
Most I've read over the years supports this

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike K View Post
The cost of electric technologies (batteries, solar, etc) are decreasing at such a rapid pace while also increasing in efficiency that we're quickly approaching the point where these technologies will be the more efficient, more cost efficient option regardless of subsidies, etc.
I haven't seen many reliable sources over the years claim this has a significant impact on the auto industry before ~2050, with legitimate details backing its claim.

I read the governments report back in Sept (provided below), and even that report (based on current CAFE standards, which will possibly get destroyed by Trump) say that by 2040 full gas powered vehicles will still represent the largest share of new vehicles sales, with full electric vehicles representing less than 10% of new vehicles sales.

U.S. Energy Information Administration (EIA) - Pub

Quote:
Passenger vehicles fueled exclusively by motor gasoline for all motive and accessory power, excluding any hybridization and flex-fuel capabilities, accounted for 83% of new sales in 2013. In the AEO2015 Reference case, gasoline-only vehicles, excluding hybridization or flex-fuel capabilities, still represent the largest share of new sales in 2040, at 46% of the total. However, alternative fuel vehicles and vehicles with hybrid technologies gain significant market shares, including gasoline vehicles equipped with micro hybrid systems (33%), E85 flex-fuel vehicles (10%), full hybrid electric vehicles (5%), diesel vehicles (4%), and plug-in hybrid vehicles and electric vehicles (2%).
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Old 01-03-2017, 05:48 PM   #22
 
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from stangtv.com little more info

Ford Announces Hybrid Mustang Set To Arrive In 2020
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Old 01-03-2017, 06:08 PM   #23
 
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Originally Posted by VenomousDSG View Post
Hybrids, electrics, Tesla specifically, etc will all be starting to fade away very shortly. A major part of that nutswinging government administration backed industry will be exiting in 17 days, and that ill be the beginning of the end for this current fad.
New administration or not, this electric car "fad" isn't going anywhere.
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Old 01-03-2017, 06:41 PM   #24
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I have watched the electric car nutswingers for decades.

No one has ever given me a satisfactory answer to the question of undersized electric grid infrastructure.

If half the homes in my neighborhood plugged in a current greedy Tesla or Volt right now, it would smoke the grid.

Oh yeah - our brilliant politicians will just 'ask' us for an 'investment' when that overlooked little nugget rises up.
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Old 01-03-2017, 07:17 PM   #25
 
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Well it's not exactly a fad, that's the "next" step.

And of course the infrastructure isn't "there" yet, we're over 100 years into the evolution of a portable ICE and an incredibly efficient infrastructure to support it. Let some asshole issue an ICE ban though... you can come get the damn things the same time you come get muh gunz.

Lots of people love money and this will be the cornerstone of why e-cars succeed. I hope they don't implement it forcefully, that kind of shit always causes problems and then people point to the tech as opposed to those who forced it immaturely as the problem. The market will. And the market will [should] also dictate if there is desire for these dinos down the road until we die. It will unless you have some half-witted government fucking everything up like they always do.

And who doesn't like all your torque literally now?
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