Ford Trucks Should Be Called Super Dirty According to Emissions Lawsuit

Flyn

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Ford truck owners are claiming Ford has been doing the same thing VW was and cheating on emissions tests. Half a million vehicles involved. Bosch is named as co defendant.

Ford Motor Co. rigged at least 500,000 heavy-duty trucks to beat emissions tests, drivers claimed in a lawsuit, adding to the tally of carmakers linked to diesel-cheating allegations worldwide that started in 2015 with Volkswagen AG.

Ford’s F-250 and F-350 Super Duty diesel pickups, a slice of the top-selling F-Series, are spewing emissions as much as 50 times the legal limit for nitrogen oxide pollutants, according to the complaint. The trucks sold from 2011 to 2017 cost $8,400 more than their gasoline-fueled counterparts, the filing shows.

“All Ford vehicles, including those with diesel engines, comply with all U.S. EPA and CARB emissions regulations,” Daniel Barbosa, a spokesman for Ford, said in an emailed statement. “Ford vehicles do not have defeat devices. We will defend ourselves against these baseless claims.”

Ford marketed the trucks as “the cleanest super diesel ever,” while the lawyer behind the suit said they should have been called “Super Dirty.”

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/arti...ck-owners-claiming-diesel-engines-were-rigged
 

b4black

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LikeABauce302

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I'm curious to know what their testing procedures were and what vehicle and ambient conditions were. One of the big issues with DEF is freezing. I know some systems will stop injecting DEF at certain temperature conditions, to allow the DEF to thaw. It's pretty much a 2/3 mix of water and 1/3 urea, so freezing has been a challenge for all diesel manufacturers.
 

rdsnake

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I work for a heavy duty truck manufacture and we went thought the same type of lawsuits in early 2010-2011.

Most of the systems without DEF are the target for the lawsuits. There shouldn't be an issue with any diesel injecting DEF. As far as freezing concerns, all systems either run coolant into the DEF tank or have a electrical heating element inside the tank.
 

Yaj Yak

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I work for a heavy duty truck manufacture and we went thought the same type of lawsuits in early 2010-2011.

Most of the systems without DEF are the target for the lawsuits. There shouldn't be an issue with any diesel injecting DEF. As far as freezing concerns, all systems either run coolant into the DEF tank or have a electrical heating element inside the tank.

sometimes this helps. :rofl:
 

RICH17

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I work for a heavy duty truck manufacture and we went thought the same type of lawsuits in early 2010-2011.

Most of the systems without DEF are the target for the lawsuits. There shouldn't be an issue with any diesel injecting DEF. As far as freezing concerns, all systems either run coolant into the DEF tank or have a electrical heating element inside the tank.

I think you mightve said but where at again?
 

LikeABauce302

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I work for a heavy duty truck manufacture and we went thought the same type of lawsuits in early 2010-2011.

Most of the systems without DEF are the target for the lawsuits. There shouldn't be an issue with any diesel injecting DEF. As far as freezing concerns, all systems either run coolant into the DEF tank or have a electrical heating element inside the tank.

I worked for an industrial engine and equipment manufacturer for a few years. I think freezing was probably more of an issue on that side, vs on road because equipment would sometimes sit for a couple days at a time before being used again, vs a truck that shuts down for only a few hours. I remember a need to allow for thawing time after first startup. If I remember correctly, the EPA recognized cold weather difficulties and allowed some time for DEF to thaw before it starts injecting.
 

GG Allin

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I work for a heavy duty truck manufacture and we went thought the same type of lawsuits in early 2010-2011.

Most of the systems without DEF are the target for the lawsuits. There shouldn't be an issue with any diesel injecting DEF. As far as freezing concerns, all systems either run coolant into the DEF tank or have a electrical heating element inside the tank.


Big diesel trucks from '08 to early '11 are the ones to avoid. These are the ones that ran DPF's but no DEF.
 

b4black

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No trucks ran with PDF and DEF. DEF is needed for SCR.

On road trucks for the most part added Diesel Particulate Filters (DPF) in 2007 to reduce soot (black smoke). This is when Ultra Low Sulfur Diesel started (>15 ppm)

Then in 2010, NOx standards came into play. Most manufactures went with Selective Catalytic Reduction (SCR) which requires the use of a Urea solution, which is commonly called "Diesel Exhaust Fluid" or DEF.

Navistar believe that the use of DEF violated the EPA guidelines and tried EGR to lower NOx. It didn't work and the EPA fined them. Then they sued the EPA and eventually the two settled.
 

LikeABauce302

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True, the early ones had DPF, no DEF/SCR. The new ones with DEF & SCR also have DPF's though.

This!

Some of the new systems do have DPFs on top of SCR. Or I've seen additional "cleanup cats" downstream after the SCR. The science behind these systems is crazy. I've got a textbook on it from an Engineering grad class I took. It's not an easy read. Pages upon pages of chemistry equations and proofs.
 
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